Defiance still lacking in comparison to Shield Oath

[baconlaserbeam]

Honestly if you playing a tank and even mentioning DPS you have the wrong idea and are playing the wrong class.

[Kerrath]

Honestly if you playing a tank and even mentioning DPS you have the wrong idea and are playing the wrong class.

if you think tank dps is irrelevant you have no place commenting in any threads discussing game balance.

[Deroth]

The funniest part of this thread is that when I first saw it it was right next to a thread of healers talking about which tank they prefer to heal/work with...when I read that thread most were either on the WAR bandwagon or felt the only difference was the player not PLD vs WAR.

[Derza]

Why is it every time someone wants to complain about warrior needing more heals from the healers they compare the damage reductions that paladins have to the ones warriors have and totally ignore all the self heals warriors have? Sure a warrior will take more damage... but they also get 15% more from being healed and can heal themselves a lot... I just hit 50 and I've been able to get several self heals from inner beast that heal me for 2200-2400 with berserk (normally they are 1000-1600). You just need to time them and use them right after you take a big hit... and you have a skill that gives you 5 stacks of wrath instantly so if you really need to you can do it 2 times in 2.5 secs... And if you just make sure you keep up bloodbath every time its off cooldown you can easily offset the difference the pld has in mitigation, it just takes a bit more err i hate to say it... player skill, the potential is there for warrior.

[Coramac]

And if you just make sure you keep up bloodbath every time its off cooldown you can easily offset the difference the pld has in mitigation, it just takes a bit more err i hate to say it... player skill, the potential is there for warrior.

Paladins can use Bloodbath too. Granted, they deal less damage, but it results in a marginal difference.

[Coramac]

I'm not at the FFXIV end game but I've done a whole lot of raiding and end game content.

Shield Oath increases effective HP by 25% and effective healing by the same. Defiance increases effective HP by 25% and effective healing by a scaling amount with a buff without 100% up time by up to 15%. The advantage the Warrior has is less frequent over but it comes solely due to the fact that that heals are less effective.

Unless Paladins get less HP per point of Vit excluding Warrior Defiance. That would change a lot, but I don't have a Paladin.

[Derza]

I'm not at the FFXIV end game but I've done a whole lot of raiding and end game content.

Shield Oath increases effective HP by 25% and effective healing by the same. Defiance increases effective HP by 25% and effective healing by a scaling amount with a buff without 100% up time by up to 15%. The advantage the Warrior has is less frequent over but it comes solely due to the fact that that heals are less effective.

Unless Paladins get less HP per point of Vit excluding Warrior Defiance. That would change a lot, but I don't have a Paladin.

Isn't shield Oath 20% not 25%?

Paladins can use Bloodbath too. Granted, they deal less damage, but it results in a marginal difference.

Well yea... its inner beast, second wind, Thrill of battle, and Storm's path, but those are used after big hits and what not... i was just saying to keep bloodbath up... and its 30 seconds for warrior and 15 seconds for paladin so not really the same.

Oh and also you need to factor in that 25% more HP means 25% more passive regeneration (I believe its like 1% of max hp every couple seconds) Just something else that would need to be considered (although its pretty minor).

[Coramac]

Isn't shield Oath 20% not 25%?

It is 20% damage reduction which translates to 25% more effective HP. 50% reduction is 100% more effective HP. You take baseline and divide it by resulting damage (1/.8).

Well yea... its inner beast, second wind, Thrill of battle, and Storm's path [snip for chars]

I thought it was 20 vs. 30 and War does more damage. Regardless, it's a non-issue. While the other abilities do factor in, there are some drawbacks. Inner Beast reduces your incoming healing substantially for a non-trivial amount of time. It does give some flexibility that's very nice. On cooldowns, Paladins have some that Warriors don't get. On the regeneration issue, the damage reduction increases the effectiveness of all healing including regeneration.

Something important that I haven't seen anywhere is do Warriors have higher base HP or better Vit gains outside of Defiance?

[allluckys]

Tank dps is relevant especially in tank and spank dps race situations. It goes like this staying alive > holding hate > dps

[Suffur]

Honestly if you playing a tank and even mentioning DPS you have the wrong idea and are playing the wrong class.

I dont know if this was your point, but thats correct. Saying that warriors do more damage should not compensate for the fact that their ability to tank is worse than PLD