Defiance still lacking in comparison to Shield Oath

[Faction]

You can't just say WAR has no place in any instance because PLD is better, period. Example, while the mechanics of the Ifrit fight make PLD a better choice, WAR is great for Garuda.

Huh? What about Garuda makes War better? Paladin is so much easier to heal on that fight and War brings literally nothing special to the table for it.. It's actually a great fight to illustrate just how much better Paladin is.

It was intended that PLD be main tanks and WAR be offtanks,

Weird, because you're not going to be able to find a quote from a dev stating this. This is something you decided, not the actual vision for the game.

(normally they are 1000-1600).

No they aren't. You're just plainly exaggerating. Much better gear than you and mine heals me for 1k non-crit, and that's on a level 45 mob out in the world.

[Derza]

You just said that a skill that causes you to heal for anywhere from 70-100 hp every 2.5 seconds for 30 seconds is enough to offset 20% damage mitigation. Think about that for a second.

I said nothing of the sort... I said the combination of the warrior healing skills as well as keeping bloodbath up every time its off cooldown will offset it. Sure if you ignore EVERYTHING I typed before that line i could see how that could be confusing for you.

see this line i wrote "... they compare the damage reductions that paladins have to the ones warriors have and totally ignore all the self heals warriors have?" you just did that... again. I assumed by saying ALL the warrior self heals that i wouldn't have to list them all... guess i was wrong... so here you go... If you use Bloodbath, secondwind, thrill of battle, storms path, and inner beast you can easily offset the damage mitigation that paladins get.

[Faction]

I said nothing of the sort... I said the combination of the warrior healing skills as well as keeping bloodbath up every time its off cooldown will offset it. Sure if you ignore EVERYTHING I typed before that line i could see how that could be confusing for you.

see this line i wrote "they compare the damage reductions that paladins have to the ones warriors have and totally ignore all the self heals warriors have?" you just did that... again.

The combination of warrior healing skills. Hmm, let's think about this for a second.

With an ideal rotation you can use inner beast every 20 seconds.

So every 20 seconds you heal yourself for like 800-1000 at my current gear level. That's 1 cure. It's not even worth it to use inner beast without infuriate from a pure tanking standpoint except in absolute emergencies (in said emergencies, btw, a paladin can actually pop cooldowns WITH MITIGATION. 3 of them.)

Meanwhile bloodbath might heal you for like 1000 across it's entire 30 second duration, and you think this is on the same level as paladin mitigation?

I'd gladly trade all of this inconsequential healing for rampart alone.

[HollowEarth]

use beserk with inner beast. your crappy 800 heal is not cracking 2000 NON crit. oh look we can get an ability to make your crit higher..weird :P

plus maim and the combo after that that heals you (forget its name)

side note if you have bloodbath up and you are using inner beast or all that jazz you are getting double heals. (heals from BB and inner beast plus whatever else damage your doing)

warrior is much harder play, this isnt wow where tanking is a faceroll. warrior are just as viable as pallys. granted there are going to be fights where you want a pally for whatever reason, but i highly doubt the reasonw ill be survivablity or because they take less damage.

[Derza]

No they aren't. You're just plainly exaggerating. Much better gear than you and mine heals me for 1k non-crit, and that's on a level 45 mob out in the world.

Really? Do you not have maim and storm's eye up or something? In 8 mans I rarely see my inner beast heal me for less then 950... I can only assume you don't keep one or the other up when using it...

Edit: Just checked out your character page... Your gear is better than mine but i do have about 10% more attack power than you, guess that is the reason we are seeing these differences.

[Coramac]

Quite honestly if a boss is doing enough damage to overcome a warrior's self healing 9 times out of 10 that amount of damage will over come the mitigation of a PLD too. The only exception being Hallowed Ground applied to extreme conditions.

My running of the numbers indicate that the Pal is ahead on a 1000 heal from Inner Beast if he is healed for ~5800 damage in 20 seconds (double for 2000 IB).

[Coramac]

Internal Release > Inner Beast > Storm's Eye Combo > Butcher's Block Combo > Maim Combo > Berserk > Inner Beast > Storm's Path > Butcher's Block Combo > Storm's Eye Combo > Inner Beast.

The inherent problem with this combo and the method you are proposing using is that using Inner Beast results in the loss of the incoming heal buff. Running an average, based on this combo, I'm showing your incoming healing running at .07875 which is a reduction of roughly 50%. Inner Beast is healing for 1000, then the break point for Inner Beast being a positive factor is ~12500 heals from healer (double it for 2000). As I said, I'm not end game, so I don't know how this compares. I expect that Inner Beast is going to be better utilized similar to a CD ability.

[GreyJorildyn]

If you get stuck thinking in concrete terms like that, then sure. That mindset won't suit you in every instance or dungeon, but it becomes more relevant in very difficult content.

[Blazn]

It's true I love the warrior play style and don't plan to swap unless endgame warrior isn't able to tank then the game will force me off the "tank" class I want and into the one I don't. The warrior definitely needs to be looked at by square. Cause I can use all my abilities to their max and only survive due to the cross class heals of the other casters. I'd think any good healer would be able to heal a well geared tank like my warrior but NOPE.

[HollowEarth]

if you think a warrior is pointless then you dont understand how to play one. a pally is WAY easyer to play. playing a war means you have to understand the fight an figure out when large damage is coming your way and recover from said damage as fast as possible. via inner beast, self heals, potions, what have you. just because they are harder to play doesnt mean they are worthless.

There are alot of reasons to roll war instead of pally. I can pull agro off a pally no problem with a basic rotation. yes a pally MIGHT be able to stay alive longer and i stress MIGHT. but whats the good if they cant hold agro. a war can hold agro on AoE packs better, that goes without saying. but even single target they just out threat a pally simple as that.

The only thing that looks to me on a pally is the stunning. wars stun is pretty sad.