Defiance still lacking in comparison to Shield Oath

[Kitru]

You ask any experienced main tank what they would rather have: 40% damage reduction for 10 seconds or 20% damage reduction for 20 seconds, every decent main tank will go for 40% reduction for 10 seconds. Efficacy matters more than uptime in almost every situation.

Except that we're not just looking at half of the duration with double the effect. The bigger consideration is actually the CD. PAL CDs are *all* longer than their effective match for a WAR.

Any main tank worth its salt would also rather have an ability with a 5 second duration on a 45 sec CD as opposed to a 10 second duration with a 90 sec CD. People keep ignoring the fact that the WAR CDs come back *way* faster than the PAL ones.

Also, a CD is only useful insofar as it lets you survive the situation for which you need it. If it's overkill for the given situation, you're not getting anything appreciably useful out of it. The WAR CDs are enough to keep a WAR alive through the "oh shit" situations that the CDs are needed for, and they can be used for *more* of those situations throughout the course of a fight as well as be used more readily because you're not having to weigh against future need nearly as much. Yes, you'll take more damage while they're active, but survival is the thing that matters.

Once again, I'm not saying that the PAL CD suite is worse than the WAR CD suite. They are simply *different*. The PAL CD suite is high value, low use rate. The WAR CD suite is comparatively low value with high use rate. A WAR that knows how to leverage those CDs (especially by stacking CDs) can do wonders with them. It's all about knowing how to utilize the tools given to you rather than expecting the tools to behave in exactly the same way just because you want them to.

[Sephirah]

I'm not saying that the PAL CD suite is worse than the WAR CD suite. They are simply *different*. The PAL CD suite is high value, low use rate. The WAR CD suite is comparatively low value with high use rate. A WAR that knows how to leverage those CDs (especially by stacking CDs) can do wonders with them. It's all about knowing how to utilize the tools given to you rather than expecting the tools to behave in exactly the same way just because you want them to.

Agreed.

[Duelle]

The difference is that the threshold of "oh shit!" is substantially lower thanks to the lower CDs.

And that's exactly my point. Unless you're giving bosses high damage phases that last close to 45-60 seconds, there's no need for Hallowed Ground, Sentinel and Rampart to have more uptime.

And let's not act like the decision is difficult. You get ganged up by a pack of mobs, you pop a defensive cooldown. Boss enters high damage mode for however many seconds, pop a CD. You have a close call and want to buy the healer some time to get your HP up, pop a CD.

[Aureus]

I'm a big fan of WAR, and I believe that if played correctly can be just as effective as PLD.

The only real complaint I have is adjust the traits a bit. Enhanced Mercy Stroke and Enhanced Fracture kinda rub me the wrong way. Fracture isn't that useful. Yeah sure it's a dot, but I don't feel it really adds anything special. I wouldn't mind maybe an Enhanced Tomahawk? Maybe it takes it off Global C/D? Or maybe an Enhanced Overpower that increases enmity more. Enhanced Mercy stroke is probably the most useless move endgame. And if you can manage to pull it off in a dungeon that's amazing! I for one can't really manage.

[Duelle]

You ask any experienced main tank what they would rather have: 40% damage reduction for 10 seconds or 20% damage reduction for 20 seconds, every decent main tank will go for 40% reduction for 10 seconds. Efficacy matters more than uptime in almost every situation. With the way damage works in this game, where you can avoid many AOEs, it makes the more powerful short duration CD's even better.

This is very true. If damage were completely unavoidable like in older games, you could argue that WAR and PLD's mitigation and self-healing balance each other out over the same period of time. Problem is, a good chunk of damage can be avoided by not standing in the fire, which notably increases the value of cooldowns that are therefore useful in high damage situations.

Enhanced Mercy Stroke and Enhanced Fracture kinda rub me the wrong way. Fracture isn't that useful. Yeah sure it's a dot, but I don't feel it really adds anything special.

I'd go the Rend route and tie some sort of benefit to threat or mitigation while Fracture is up on the mob.

[hola]

I'm a big fan of WAR, and I believe that if played correctly can be just as effective as PLD.

so, you are a believer.

[Lharz]

Just wanted to say, a certain MMO also known as World Of Warcraft contained four fabulous tank classes years ago, four different gameplay which were really cool to play because one was really different from the others.

People cried 'cause they were "not balanced", so patches after patches, those four amazing differents tanks became just the same gameplay and nearly the same mechanics. You now play a warrior as you play a pally, as you play a DK and as you play a feral. Tanking in WoW is boring as hell nowadays.

Just sayin'.

[Wangstrong]

That certain MMO also had a time when only one out of the original three tanking specs were viable, and you still saw players of that one viable spec swearing that everything was fine and buffing the other two would be wrong.

I know what I prefer.

[Sephirah]

I know what I prefer.

Then go play that game.

[BadRNG]

Then go play that game.

Imbalanced gameplay is really not something you should be so proud of.

Do you answer all posts asking for gameplay changes with "if you don't like it, you can get out!"? Or is it just ones you have a bias for?