Learning to be Patient with SE Dev Communication.

[Abriael]

The tables were easier to read and all the information was nicely compiled instead of hiding behind individual threads, so I don't think they are obsolete. I hope Yoshida keeps posting them, after 1.18 would be a good time for another.

1: there's less space in the tables, so they're even less informative
2: they can only be updated alongside yoshida's letter, making them less flexible
3: what exactly is hard to read in a forum format where new features and updates are added on top?

[Betelgeuzah]

1: there's less space in the tables, so they're even less informative
2: they can only be updated alongside yoshida's letter, making them less flexible
3: what exactly is hard to read in a forum format where new features and updates are added on top?

It is a nice compilation of information that the current forum threads do not offer (because you have to go to each thread individually, which makes browsing cumbersome), and the closest we can get to a road-map at this point. It is not obsolete.

[Abriael]

It is a nice compilation of information that the current forum threads do not offer (because you have to go to each thread individually, which makes browsing cumbersome), and the closest we can get to a road-map at this point. It is not obsolete.

"please, yoshida-san, waste time that you could use actually working on the game to compile a less informative version of something we already have!"

Because the fact that when he posts in the forums he does so at 2 AM already shows that he has plenty time to waste, right?

[Spellbinder]

"please, yoshida-san, waste time that you could use actually working on the game to compile a less informative version of something we already have!"

Because the fact that when he posts in the forums he does so at 2 AM already shows that he has plenty time to waste, right?

I usually tend to agree with your posts Abriael, but here I really think you need to tone down the attitude that your posting suggests. As Yoshida has already had to point out in one of his letters due to all the rage and arguing, there are various teams with various tasks all working together to create this game. Who is to say there is no team that works on the website who could work to consolidate information in an easy to view table on the main page.

1: there's less space in the tables, so they're even less informative

As Betelgeuzah already stated, a table would serve as a simplified compilation to give anyone who sees it a quick idea of what goals have been completed it, what goals have been set, and what goals are currently being worked on.

2: they can only be updated alongside yoshida's letter, making them less flexible

Assuming they were only updated alongside a letter, a milestone of progress from letter to letter is still nothing to sneeze at. Hypothetically speaking, what if there was a page on the site dedicated simply to the table and occasionally changing the status of its contents as progress is made?

3: what exactly is hard to read in a forum format where new features and updates are added on top?

While perhaps not hard to read, it is safe to assume that generally speaking not everyone bothers to look at the website for any given game very often, and even fewer actually populate official forums if there are any. Creating other outlets to show people "hey, this is what we have planned, this is what we're working on, and this is what is finished" would only help.

We need less "no, doing X is stupid and a waste of time" and more "I don't think X would be a good way to go, but maybe Y wouldn't be so bad".

[Betelgeuzah]

"please, yoshida-san, waste time that you could use actually working on the game to compile a less informative version of something we already have!"

Because the fact that when he posts in the forums he does so at 2 AM already shows that he has plenty time to waste, right?

Yeah, you don't agree. That doesn't make it obsolete, sorry to tell you.

And you act like you think it's Yoshida who compiles that information for us. He must be the one creating those nice poll charts and job armor concepts as well. Everything in that letter must be hand-crafted by Him.

[Abriael]

@Spellbinder: The detail you're missing is that they're working on limited time and resources, with a whole game to overhaul. I would say it's better for them to focus on that, instead of wasting those resources in something that adds nothing, but just advantages those that can't be bothered to check a very accessible forum that has *all* the info included in the tables, and more.
Besides, they alrerady tried to adress the visibility issue by posting dev threads on the top page, receiving a storm of insults for that, as usual.

And you act like you think it's Yoshida who compiles that information for us. He must be the one creating those nice poll charts and job armor concepts as well. Everything in that letter must be hand-crafted by Him.

Because you know, right?

Besides, even if someone else compiled it, it's quite obviously that now that someone has been redirected to doing something more useful.

[Betelgeuzah]

Because you know, right?

Besides, even if someone else compiled it, it's quite obviously that now that someone has been redirected to doing something more useful.

Doesn't make it any less obsolete. You can disagree all you want, the forum threads do not make the table obsolete.

[Spellbinder]

@Spellbinder: The detail you're missing is that they're working on limited time and resources, with a whole game to overhaul. I would say it's better for them to focus on that, instead of wasting those resources in something that adds nothing, but just advantages those that can't be bothered to check a very accessible forum that has *all* the info included in the tables, and more.

Of course their resources are limited, I'd like to think no one would assume otherwise. But what of their web designers? I'd like to think it's not that big of a stretch to make a web page with a table on it.

[Masamune]

This forum is a tool used for SE to communicate with the players. Many people condone players asking the dev's for any sort of info, though this is what this tool should be used for. They want to know what players want, and some want more info on the development of this game. This could have just been done by having players start a poll of a question such as "Is auto-attack wanted in this game?" and having players respond with a yes or a no. They instead gave us the option for creativity in our responses so we could possibly help or contribute to the posters (maybe even dev's) idea. The only problem I see with asking a question is the manner in which it is asked and the manner in which people respond to said question.

Go ahead and ask your questions! Just do it nicely and don't expect a response.

[Abriael]

Of course their resources are limited, I'd like to think no one would assume otherwise. But what of their web designers? I'd like to think it's not that big of a stretch to make a web page with a table on it.

Information has to be compiled, compiling information involves a lot more than just a lone web designer in an office. It involves taking the time of the team leads (all of them), in order to collect that information, and doing so whenever the table needs to be compiled.
On the other hand, the forum structure is more flexible, as the team lead can give the information at their own convenience when they have a bit of free time, and the relevant thread can be edited immediately.

Mind you, even web designers have been quite busy. They have been working on improving the lodestone functionalities on a regular base, and the forums as well. It's not that those are sitting in their offices scratching their bellies.