Preparing for Battle/Job system

[Kallera]

I'm not saying MAKE the Marauder a healer. But the choice should be there if someone wants it. I was just making an example of how they could make each Weapon "Use" cross weapon skills.

And no one ever said make the marauder as good a healer either. For example, perhaps the fact that he's using a non magical tool to channel his power, keeps him from making aoe casts, or the spells is not as powerful, even if his stats were like the conjurer's.

Each weapon is a tool, but each of them have their own strentghs and weaknesses.

[BruceyBruceyBangBang]

But why would you want to make a DD class heal the party, you are going to end up with a party full of MRD wil high DD and def and capable of healing one another, where does the conjurer fit into this party or another class for that matter ?

The survivability needs to be there. Without it, you could very well just cock block most melee classes to progress unless they find a healer to group with. The survivability could be less effective, actually, that is the case now. However, removing it would be more of a head ache to the melee who want to progress or farm mobs solo.

It should be more about balancing the skills than taking them out completely. I think your suggestion, pardon me for saying, is irrational and not very thought out.

[Jinko]

Problem is many are looking at this from the perspective of FF11, lets look at it from the perspective of pretty much any other MMO or RPG out there, if you are a Ranger in Rift you don't get to heal, if you are a Hunter in WoW you don't get to heal, does it make the class any less entertaining no it means you are specialised at what you do.

The survivability needs to be there. Without it, you could very well just cock block most melee classes to progress unless they find a healer to group with. The survivability could be less effective, actually, that is the case now. However, removing it would be more of a head ache to the melee who want to progress or farm mobs solo.

I'm all for solo play, but at the end of the day MMO's are community games and you're supposed to play them together, your post just proves my point in that if you are unable to survive on your own you need to get help.

[Cairdeas]

Problem is many are looking at this from the perspective of FF11, lets look at it from the perspective of pretty much any other MMO or RPG out there, if you are a Ranger in Rift you don't get to heal, if you are a Hunter in WoW you don't get to heal, does it make the class any less entertaining no it means you are specialised at what you do.

In Wow you are a CLASS defined by your choice of Role.

In XIV your a Character defined by your EQUIPPED SKILLS. Your Weapon is just how you learn and use them.

The JOB System would implement Assigned ROLES for a user by enhancing the abilities needed by the CHARACTER to perform said Role.

[BruceyBruceyBangBang]

Problem is many are looking at this from the perspective of FF11, lets look at it from the perspective of pretty much any other MMO or RPG out there, if you are a Ranger in Rift you don't get to heal, if you are a Hunter in WoW you don't get to heal, does it make the class any less entertaining no it means you are specialised at what you do.

and that works for their system. I think each class having a specific ability or spell for it's own survivability works in this game. If it is too powerful, it's a balancing issue and not a issue of if they should have the ability or not. Also, in those games you only have the option of leveling one class, or in rift's case, a build of classes and then it's done for in a sense.

Final Fantasy XIV, you have the ability to rank in any class on one character. It is logical to it's system to be able to use spells/abilities cross class.

[Jinko]

It still doesn't change the fact that Yoshi-p hinted that he wants more specialisation/uniqueness between classes.

I guess we will see how he does this but I'm just hoping that the job system is something which restricts the role of a class and makes it more unique, instead of making it more diverse and watering them down more than they already are.

[Cairdeas]

It still doesn't change the fact that Yoshi-p hinted that he wants more specialisation/uniqueness between classes.

I guess we will see how he does this but I'm just hoping that the job system is something which restricts the role of a class and makes it more unique, instead of making it more diverse and watering them down more than they already are.

It shouldn't Restrict, it should Focus.

IE White Mage focuses you to use Healing and Curative Spells by giving you bonuses when you do, but doesn't restrict you from equipping other skills too, you just don't get bonuses for doing so.

[BruceyBruceyBangBang]

I'm all for solo play, but at the end of the day MMO's are community games and you're supposed to play them together, your post just proves my point in that if you are unable to survive on your own you need to get help.

Actually, it just proves that you want to turn the game back into XI where people would just stand around in town til a healer leveled into their range and were looking to group. I'm not saying that everything should be done solo, but the option does need to be there. Like it or not, people enjoy casual MMO'ing. In fact, it's growing in popularity and the days of hitting a wall in progression and discouraging casual players is ending as the play-style grows.

This comes back to balancing issues. Should a solo player gain more skill/exp per hour than a group? Nope. Do they right now? Not entirely, but some classes make ranking easy when solo. If the player wants to rush their way up the progression latter he/she should feel the most viable option would be to group up. For a player who doesn't mind the rate of their progression should be able to solo and have the ability of survivability. See what happens? Both parties are happy and it's not a very extreme idea that holds a lot of unbalancing issues and we're not irrationally taking all forms of survivability away from players.

I think it's kind of condescending to the casual player base by saying they are not good enough to play an MMO if most cases than not they have to solo for a small amount of time. This is the problem with what you want out of an MMO, it shuts the majority of players out. We would like the game to succeed, Right?

...right?

It still doesn't change the fact that Yoshi-p hinted that he wants more specialisation/uniqueness between classes.

I guess we will see how he does this but I'm just hoping that the job system is something which restricts the role of a class and makes it more unique, instead of making it more diverse and watering them down more than they already are.

Restricting the class does not make them unique. Unless, unique to you means to be totally useless or co-dependent to other classes. You don't have to take away survivability from one class to make another unique. It's unique in it's ability to perform it's task. If all forms of survivability were equal, then yes, that would then make the class that specializes in healing less unique.

Again, balancing issues.

[Kailok]

While I admit I'd like to see a WHM wielding an Axe, and the animations of the axe are how the curing is dealt, but the problem is weapon stats. In order to provide class/job customization, they're going to add specific stats to weapons. I doubt you'll see "+10 MND +10 MP" on an Axe. Therefore making you less efficient, which in the long run can get people killed. I understand wanting to be different, and wanting to mix, but they would have to make so many weapons of each different type just to be able to get the variety of stats in. Which would just take more time for the battle system/job system changes to release.

[BlaiseLallaise]

Problem is many are looking at this from the perspective of FF11, lets look at it from the perspective of pretty much any other MMO or RPG out there...

I think this is one of the biggest problems with most of the discussions in the forums. People draw conclusions by looking at their experiences with other MMOs, since that is what they know and are familiar with. Discussing topics about FFXIV is most effective when done from the perspective of FFXIV. Does my argument make sense with respect to the current state of FFXIV? I get the feeling that people tend to forget to ask that to themselves. I'm all for gathering inspiration from and drawing parallels to other MMOs, but to base an entire argument on what existed or worked in another game is where arguments fall flat.

But of course, I'm not accusing anyone of doing that here. It's just one of those strong feelings I have. That is all for my thread derail. Proceed.