Preparing for Battle/Job system

[BruceyBruceyBangBang]

Problem is many are looking at this from the perspective of FF11, lets look at it from the perspective of pretty much any other MMO or RPG out there, if you are a Ranger in Rift you don't get to heal, if you are a Hunter in WoW you don't get to heal, does it make the class any less entertaining no it means you are specialised at what you do.

and that works for their system. I think each class having a specific ability or spell for it's own survivability works in this game. If it is too powerful, it's a balancing issue and not a issue of if they should have the ability or not. Also, in those games you only have the option of leveling one class, or in rift's case, a build of classes and then it's done for in a sense.

Final Fantasy XIV, you have the ability to rank in any class on one character. It is logical to it's system to be able to use spells/abilities cross class.

[BruceyBruceyBangBang]

I'm all for solo play, but at the end of the day MMO's are community games and you're supposed to play them together, your post just proves my point in that if you are unable to survive on your own you need to get help.

Actually, it just proves that you want to turn the game back into XI where people would just stand around in town til a healer leveled into their range and were looking to group. I'm not saying that everything should be done solo, but the option does need to be there. Like it or not, people enjoy casual MMO'ing. In fact, it's growing in popularity and the days of hitting a wall in progression and discouraging casual players is ending as the play-style grows.

This comes back to balancing issues. Should a solo player gain more skill/exp per hour than a group? Nope. Do they right now? Not entirely, but some classes make ranking easy when solo. If the player wants to rush their way up the progression latter he/she should feel the most viable option would be to group up. For a player who doesn't mind the rate of their progression should be able to solo and have the ability of survivability. See what happens? Both parties are happy and it's not a very extreme idea that holds a lot of unbalancing issues and we're not irrationally taking all forms of survivability away from players.

I think it's kind of condescending to the casual player base by saying they are not good enough to play an MMO if most cases than not they have to solo for a small amount of time. This is the problem with what you want out of an MMO, it shuts the majority of players out. We would like the game to succeed, Right?

...right?

It still doesn't change the fact that Yoshi-p hinted that he wants more specialisation/uniqueness between classes.

I guess we will see how he does this but I'm just hoping that the job system is something which restricts the role of a class and makes it more unique, instead of making it more diverse and watering them down more than they already are.

Restricting the class does not make them unique. Unless, unique to you means to be totally useless or co-dependent to other classes. You don't have to take away survivability from one class to make another unique. It's unique in it's ability to perform it's task. If all forms of survivability were equal, then yes, that would then make the class that specializes in healing less unique.

Again, balancing issues.

[BlaiseLallaise]

Problem is many are looking at this from the perspective of FF11, lets look at it from the perspective of pretty much any other MMO or RPG out there...

I think this is one of the biggest problems with most of the discussions in the forums. People draw conclusions by looking at their experiences with other MMOs, since that is what they know and are familiar with. Discussing topics about FFXIV is most effective when done from the perspective of FFXIV. Does my argument make sense with respect to the current state of FFXIV? I get the feeling that people tend to forget to ask that to themselves. I'm all for gathering inspiration from and drawing parallels to other MMOs, but to base an entire argument on what existed or worked in another game is where arguments fall flat.

But of course, I'm not accusing anyone of doing that here. It's just one of those strong feelings I have. That is all for my thread derail. Proceed.

[Kailok]

I think everyone here is just over-speculating what it will be. About 75% of the players voted they were willing to see drastic changes in the game, so who knows, perhaps they'll scrap the armoury system for the job system. But we won't know anything until Yoshi-P gives us cold hard facts. I just hope he goes into detail...

[Jinko]

Cairdeas I kind of see what you are getting at, although I don't think that an Archer should really be using cure to begin with and is part of what I mean when I talk about the dilution of class skills.

Lets imagine an archer unable to equip any other class abilities but within his own specialisation, he would no longer be able to cure, use second wind or bloodbath, the game has just become a lot more difficult for this class in terms of survivability.

Sure there will be lot of thing he may not be able to solo now, so he is now forced to team up with a Conjurer or Thaumaturge, classes also become more valuable during end game content and party activities.

The intro movie shows a Conjurer imbuing an archers arrow with fire and I agree it would add a pretty nifty aspect to the game, but again i think that it should be a buff such as enfira cast by a conjurer (maybe a new job/class ?) than an archer actually using the spell himself.

[Xeno]

I kind of see what you are getting at, although I don't think that an Archer should really be using cure to begin with and is part of what I mean when I talk about the dilution of class skills.

Lets imagine an archer unable to equip any other class abilities but within his own specialisation, he would no longer be able to cure, use second wind or bloodbath, the game has just become a lot more difficult for this class in terms of survivability.

Sure there will be lot of thing he may not be able to solo now, so he is now forced to team up with a Conjurer or Thaumaturge, classes also become more valuable during end game content and party activities.

The intro movie shows a Conjurer imbuing an archers arrow with fire and I agree it would add a pretty nifty aspect to the game, but again i think that it should be a buff such as enfira cast by a conjurer (maybe a new job ?) than an archer actually using the spell himself.

That new job is Arcanist ^_^ but if they restricted the skills to only the class that you are currently on then let you equip any of the new jobs they would add would be completely fine to me. Nothing wrong with a Conjurer/Thief but it probably wouldn't be the best combination kind of like WAR/WHM.

[Cairdeas]

Cairdeas I kind of see what you are getting at, although I don't think that an Archer should really be using cure to begin with and is part of what I mean when I talk about the dilution of class skills.

Lets imagine an archer unable to equip any other class abilities but within his own specialisation, he would no longer be able to cure, use second wind or bloodbath, the game has just become a lot more difficult for this class in terms of survivability.

Sure there will be lot of thing he may not be able to solo now, so he is now forced to team up with a Conjurer or Thaumaturge, classes also become more valuable during end game content and party activities.

The intro movie shows a Conjurer imbuing an archers arrow with fire and I agree it would add a pretty nifty aspect to the game, but again i think that it should be a buff such as enfira cast by a conjurer (maybe a new job/class ?) than an archer actually using the spell himself.

With the implementation of Jobs limiting what you were good at limiting the Weapon Class to its own skill makes the Job System Pointless at that point and does kill the Armoury System as it is.

Instead a Archer/Black Mage would be someone who specializes in Black Magic, but uses an Arrow to deliver that power.

[Physic]

why shouldnt an archer use cure, I dont think that your idea of what classes should be, wouldnt be very entertaining, and is contrary to a lot of what the game said they want to bring to the table. Even FFXI had a decent amount of customization, and a lot of those combinations, while not great in 6 man parties, actually worked well in smaller groups.
I can see a certain job getting a buff to certain abilities, or a mechanic that enhances an aspect of play, like say rage mechanic for warriors, or a whm getting back energy for healing, but to totally destroy what the armory system brings to the table by pigeonholding everyone to a specific skill set, sucks.

I think you are the one who wants to destroy the foundation of the armory system. and if this was the case, why even have jobs, they cant enhance charachter uniqueness anymore than taking all of cross discipline skills out of the game.

[Jinko]

It still doesn't change the fact that Yoshi-p hinted that he wants more specialisation/uniqueness between classes.

I guess we will see how he does this but I'm just hoping that the job system is something which restricts the role of a class and makes it more unique, instead of making it more diverse and watering them down more than they already are.

[Cairdeas]

It still doesn't change the fact that Yoshi-p hinted that he wants more specialisation/uniqueness between classes.

I guess we will see how he does this but I'm just hoping that the job system is something which restricts the role of a class and makes it more unique, instead of making it more diverse and watering them down more than they already are.

It shouldn't Restrict, it should Focus.

IE White Mage focuses you to use Healing and Curative Spells by giving you bonuses when you do, but doesn't restrict you from equipping other skills too, you just don't get bonuses for doing so.