Common mistakes new tanks make

[Zfz]

So I've been running dungeons a lot (totaling over 100 dungeons up to level 44), as tanks, as attacker, and as healer. Here are some common mistakes a lot of tanks are making. Please don't be one of them.

1. Gladiators relying on Riot Blade combo

I've seen a lot of Gladiators who never or very rarely use the Savage Blade combo. They will keep using the Riot Blade combo even when their mana is full. In one extreme case, the Gladiator never used Flash, relying 100% on the Riot Blade combo. After explaining to him why he should always use the Savage Blade combo unless he needs mana, he changed into a sort of 3 Riot to 1 Savage ratio kind of rotation.

While some of you may think that Riot Blade combo has higher potency and hence more enmity, this is completely wrong. The Savage Blade combo is designed specifically to produce much more threat than the damage it does. This combo is your main weapon. Do not use Riot Blade unless you don't need the added enmity.

And you will need that additional enmity if the attackers in your party are worth anything. Getting away with only Riot Blade and still never have targets turning towards the attackers would mean your attackers need to relearn their class, too---or the opposite and they're holding off and doing nothing half the time waiting for you to generate enough enmity for their next attack.

2. One flash/overpower per fight

While you could get away with one Flash in the whole fight during your class quest battle, that was because the battle was designed to be that way. Flash is no longer the strong enmity tool it used to be back in beta. Now healers heal more, and overheal more. Healing causes much higher enmity now than it used to.

The right way is to always keep switching targets and put down a combo'ed Savage Blade on a target that is racking up healing enmity. If you can't be bothered to switch targets, then make sure you cast plenty of Flash if the pack consists of more than two enemies.

3. Tanking with your backside

Don't let enemies hit you on your back. Move and adjust your position so that all of them are in front of you. You can't parry or block if attacks are coming from behind you. You are making things harder for your healer. You are endangering the whole party by doing this.

4. Continuously shifting around the target

I don't know where this one came from, perhaps from the urban legend that, "just keep going in circles around the mob and it can't hit you because it has to turn first."

That rumor is not true. Mobs now are able to instantly adjust their facing after using a weapon skill, and auto-attack is no longer tied to any animation, so as long as you are in melee range, you will take that hit even if you are rotating around the mob at 10,000 turns a second.

Not only will you still take the same hits, you are also making it close to impossible for Pugilist and Lancers to deal proper damage. They have many attacks that need to land on either the side or the back of the enemy. Shifting around like that means they deal less damage, fights last longer, and in the end you take more damage.

Good tanks know to minimize movement. Don't move unless there's a good reason.

5. Casting Protect

Do not cast Protect if you have a Conjurer/White Mage in the party. Conjurers have a trait that adds magical defense to their Protect. You don't.

So stop casting Protect!

6. Leeeeeeeeeroy!

Tanks often take the lead, but a lot of tanks these days are just rushing forward to the next pack and delve right in. Don't do this.

You need to check on your party members all the time. Keep them in sight. Wait for them. Especially the healer. Good tanks will keep a brisk pace and move ahead, leading the party. But at the same time they know exactly where everybody are. They always keep an eye on the whole party even if the party never realize it.

Turn around. And do it often. A tank isn't a slave master with the rest of the party on a leash. A tank is the protector of the herd. You stand in front because you elect to stop all harm. You can't do that if everyone else is a whole room away and trapped behind an obstacle (which you triggered).

※ Leeeeeeeeroy!

7. Tunnel vision

Many tanks will only look forward, disregarding the possibility of enemies coming from behind.

8. Positioning
This isn't just about keeping the boss or mob facing away from the party/healer.

The last boss in copperbell: If you keep the boss parked near the last wall the adds run to break down, melee DPS does not have to run back and forth between the boss and the adds everytime an add appears.

1st boss in Stone Vigil: If you keep the boss in the middle of the arena, when he breaks away and runs to a wall in order to AOE breath, everyone has more time to get out of the way, because he takes longer to run to the wall.

2nd boss in Stone Vigil: If you keep the boss near the entrance the cyclones have further to travel and again PT members have more warning.

Zfz's example in Brayflox above: If you park the boss on top of where the adds spawn then you can easily flash them the very moment they appear.

Watch for what a boss does movement wise and where adds or mechanics appear from. Moving the boss to an appropriate spot may completely change the fight for the better.

[Grey_Cain]

I would like to add tanks (and DPS) that use AoE attacks on slept enemies. It may be more efficient damage against a large group, and you may think you're doing me a favor by keeping all the side mobs from targeting me, but it's literally murder (yours, specifically) trying to keep the tank healed with four mobs all beating him down at once. Each mob out of the fight is one less thing hitting you, one less tic that I don't need to spam my strongest Cures (and all the enmity it pulls onto myself) just to keep you alive, and one more tic of free time that I have to cast Esuna.

Caveat: This only applies to fights against trash mobs. Once the mid-/boss comes, spam away with all the AoE's because adds usually need to die first and sleep doesn't work on (most) bosses.

[Eboric]

Yes we do tend to do damage and wake up sleepers but you have to understand that as a tank we are focused on getting has much agro as possible and facing the enemy away from the party as best we can. While you know what mob you put to sleep the only indication we have is tinny little purple things coming off their head and most of the time with all the spells and junk going off we can not see that at all. The solution is not that the tank should be on the lookout for sleepers as that is not our job. The solution is you should mark your sleepers so we know to leave them out of our agro rotation. Or if you are just to lazy to mark yourself you can ask the tank to mark them before he pulls. I do this all the time. Expecting the tank to know who you put to sleep without telling him in some way is just stupid.

[Reinheart]

Expecting the tank to know who you put to sleep without telling him in some way is just stupid.

Just like the party list, would be nice if the enmity list showed the marker icons on that along with some effects like sleep on there, or be able to have 2 markers up on one mob. One for marker, one for effect someone else put 3+O target #3, O currently being slept.

[WellFooled]

Very nice thread, I'm a tank of several MMOs, but I didn't even think about not being able to block enemies that are attacking me from behind. Much appreciated!

[Arukai]

4. Continuously shifting around the target

"I before E except after C".

Truth is, in languages, that saying has no basis whatsoever. Some fights require movement; first boss in the Temple a definite case in point. (And yes, I've had melee DPS tell me to stand still in that fight...) Movement is a thing tanks have to learn to do at some point; minimising the risks and the issues with it is where the skill really lies. Slime in Copperbell is the first real lesson in movement.

Perhaps a better replacement for this situational thing is an actual tip; Tanks, did you know that most of those big AoE cones and circles can be interrupted? It's true! Your stuns can save you damage and your healer some precious mana by interrupting some of the more pernicious moves, such as Aiatar's poison breath. Rather than trying to run out of them, save your stuns for these moments. Every single precious stun counts!

Plus if you're interrupting, then you don't have to move. Hey, it's a win-win!

[BloodOath_Loyalty]

Thanks for this tip. I didn't know I can interrupt with stun. I definitely will be making use of this thanks.

Perhaps a better replacement for this situational thing is an actual tip; Tanks, did you know that most of those big AoE cones and circles can be interrupted? It's true! Your stuns can save you damage and your healer some precious mana by interrupting some of the more pernicious moves, such as Aiatar's poison breath. Rather than trying to run out of them, save your stuns for these moments. Every single precious stun counts!

Plus if you're interrupting, then you don't have to move. Hey, it's a win-win!

[ZenBear]

Some fights require movement; first boss in the Temple a definite case in point. (And yes, I've had melee DPS tell me to stand still in that fight...) Movement is a thing tanks have to learn to do at some point; minimizing the risks and the issues with it is where the skill really lies. Slime in Copperbell is the first real lesson in movement.

She's not talking about AoEs. Yes, you need to move out of those. What she means is tanks running in circles to avoid auto-attacks; it doesn't work, but tanks still waste time and focus doing it cuz they think it does.

You can run away from the mob to make it waste time chasing you, but there are some issues with that.
1. You aren't adding to your threat. Every moment the boss spends chasing you is a moment you're not generating aggro, and that can be a death sentence to your party members.
2. Melee DDs cant hit moving targets (most of the time). It's frustrating as hell, so keep the boss in one spot to kill it faster. You're a tank, you can take the hits.
I run Sunken all the time, it's a lot of fun, but beyond strafing out of the Darkness spell and running to get inside the Verge sealed squares, you don't need to move much.

[Arukai]

Ahh, okay, the Sugar Plum Method. When has it ever worked?

Kiting/running away is still necessary for SOME fights though; this is the way of boss mechanics, after all. This is why I said it's situational; minimising movement is pointless on certain fights where movement is just part and parcel of what is about to happen. Movement is a skill that needs to be learned; knowing when to not move is as much a part of this as moving itself.

As for threat generation, BloodOath's sig sums up my feeling. Sure DPS, you can blow all those cooldowns. And sure, you can run away from the tank and healer. But you know what? I can tell you exactly how much damage you will be doing with your face in the floor; none.

Enmity is a team effort; tanks should mark primary threat targets - drag one of the marks to your action bars for ease of use, and make it clear marked target is your primary threat target.

Sometimes killing by numbers really is the most efficient means of doing it.

[ZenBear]

Kiting/running away is still necessary for SOME fights though; this is the way of boss mechanics, after all. This is why I said it's situational; minimising movement is pointless on certain fights where movement is just part and parcel of what is about to happen. Movement is a skill that needs to be learned; knowing when to not move is as much a part of this as moving itself.

Just wait till you reach Dzemael Darkhold. ;D