Possibility to open FFXIV up to a moddable UI?

[Loony_BoB]

Have you ever used a strategy guide, or have gone to a web site to read up on tactics for certain encounters in a game? The learning experience is still there whether boss mods are used or not. Your raid still needs communication or you won't succeed, it doesn't remove from the experience at all. It's simply a method of displaying already displayed information in the form of text instead of graphics.

But the intelligence and observation factor is important to make it into an achievement. The knowing what each graphic movement means. And while yes, I do indeed use guides on rare occasions, I don't do it every time - only after I've died a few times over, can't level further and feel stuck. Basically, when I concede defeat but still want to progress through the story. It gives me no sense of achievement and it still requires me to understand what is happening on the screen rather than the screen TELLING me what is about to happen. The interpretation of the graphics is a skill, it is knowledge. Again, though, I rarely do this. I am a fairly determined person when it comes to doing things in what I see as 'the right way'.

A boss mod can tell you adds are coming. But it doesn't tell you how to deal with them. It doesn't tell you if you need to kill them, where you need to kill them, what spells to use, or anything. It simply says "Adds are coming".

I am relieved that it doesn't tell you what spells to use, etc. Although I understand some of these kind of mods actually do. That's the concern I have. And again, I prefer that it doesn't tell me but that I learn the signals, the graphics, so that I understand the game better. I like that part of video games.

PS. Sorry, I don't know what adds are ;_;"

The rest is up to you, your raid leaders, and the rest of your raid. A boss mod might say "Mega Super Beam of Deathly Doom incoming, move away!", but it doesn't tell you where to move, it doesn't move for you, and it doesn't tell you what actually happens if you get hit. It's up to you, your raid leaders, and your raid to communicate these things both ahead of time and during the raid in order to make sure everyone understands everything.

So long as it is extremely obvious that these things are about to happen, I could live with that, although I would prefer to not have that happen. I would prefer a member of my team (hopefully there are multiple 'leaders') says something - perhaps it will be me - and we react accordingly.

Anyone who raided even semi-hardcorelike in WoW and used boss mods I'm sure can vouch for the fact that a bad player or a bad raid leader can kill a raid whether they are using boss mods or not. Not paying attention is not paying attention. And learning scripted bosses in MMORPGs require you to pay attention first and foremost.

Do they sometimes insist you use mods, though? The biggest concern of all is that I might miss a graphic/signal from the monster for some reason and people will blame me for the loss of the group because I don't use a certain mod that would have made it more obvious. I would rather be in a situation where they blame me for not noticing the signal and their comments saying "ARGH, doom beam coming!" or whatever. If 5/6 people in a party all use a mod that tells you these things, they may get used to not having to communicate and thus the 1/6 that doesn't use the mod may suffer for it.

Thanks for explaining things a little more, hope you can reply to this, too! It's constructive/educational, at least for me.

[Ava]

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Thanks for explaining things a little more, hope you can reply to this, too! It's constructive/educational, at least for me.

I cut your post because it was big and I dont like quoting big things.

Some people will argue that mods ruin things like the element of surprise and such but this is a major misconception. LUA code is not very smart. LUA cannot calculate complex mathematical formulas or use elaborate algorithms to tell you what to do. LUA simply cannot do that efficiently. So no, boss mods don't tell you what spells to cast, LUA is not smart, it can't make decisions for you.

Adds above was in reference to additional monsters in an encounter, sometimes bosses will spawn "adds", which means monsters will come to the battlefield as a part of the encounter and you'll have to handle both the adds + the boss at the same time. A boss mod can only tell you they are coming, it can't tell you what to do with them (offtank, or kill them), LUA is not that smart.

Some guilds do insist on their members using boss mods in other games. But if you're a known good player, most guilds won't question your decision not to use them. You can argue that boss mods might be insulting to people if they're having a hard time learning an encounter, but this is a team game. You want everyone on your team to be as well equipped as the others, if you have someone that keeps wiping the raid because they aren't anticipating that super attack that kills everyone then you'll have to find a solution. If you've already tried explaining it to them, the next step is to either kick them or ask them to download boss mods. In this situation, is it not wrong? It could offend people, and that may be where a lot of the debate comes from, but let's be honest, who wants to be one of the 7 people doing things right but that 8th person just keeps screwing things up for everyone?

[Loony_BoB]

Some guilds do insist on their members using boss mods in other games. But if you're a known good player, most guilds won't question your decision not to use them. You can argue that boss mods might be insulting to people if they're having a hard time learning an encounter, but this is a team game.

Yes, but as much as it is a team game, how can you learn an encounter without actually being given a chance to learn it, even if it means making mistakes? Mistakes are exactly how you learn. I won't claim to be a known good player at all, I play for fun and I'm very social when in a party compared to most people (particularly if it involves my friends). Sometimes we all died, but we laughed about it and we got back up again and carried on where we left off.

You want everyone on your team to be as well equipped as the others, if you have someone that keeps wiping the raid because they aren't anticipating that super attack that kills everyone then you'll have to find a solution. If you've already tried explaining it to them, the next step is to either kick them or ask them to download boss mods.

Tell them when it's happening. I can understand you kicking them if they never learn even if you tell them, though, because obviously that means even if the mod was not there for anyone in the party, they still would not react to your communication.

In this situation, is it not wrong? It could offend people, and that may be where a lot of the debate comes from, but let's be honest, who wants to be one of the 7 people doing things right but that 8th person just keeps screwing things up for everyone?

I agree if they keep screwing up - but only if you are still communicating effectively with them. If you are not communicating effectively with them, if they are not given another chance after screwing up on their first or second attempt, then it does become a concern.

Basically, I just hope that everyone is on the same level regardless of what mods - if any - they use. You seem to be of the opinion that even with those mods, people will still communicate and that people should still require skill, and therefore the mods will not cause any issues. If that's the case, I hope what you believe turns out to be true, because it sounds fine.

I hope you understand the worry of others and where it's coming from, though. Particularly relatively inexperienced people like myself - my experience in modern MMO's is restricted to FFXI, and I only got to somewhere around level 40 or so in that.

[Ava]

I speak from several years of personal experience with- and without the use of mods, all types of mods, and even some personal experience with LUA coding. I see why people are concerned but I strongly feel it's being way overexagerrated, and I hope that when it comes to the implementation of UI mods, SE considers the possibility of overexagerration. I feel that FFXIV should be made as an evolution of the genre, and that they should implement what they want and with appropriate moderation, the reception should be mostly positive.

FFXI was not built with mods, and it in turn led to people using things such as windower scripts and ApRadar, these things were terrible and I am strongly strongly against such things. By allowing the use of UI mods, they gain the ability to moderate them and choose what people do with them. When you don't give people an in house option, they will use third party options that will be even worse, and SE wont be able to moderate these things.