Possibility to open FFXIV up to a moddable UI?

[Loony_BoB]

Since a lot of people are complaining a lot about boss mods. What's the difference between an on screen indicator via text that says "Spike Flail Incoming in 5..." and *insert random raid leader* constantly telling the raid over vent/skype to stand under the wing so you don't get hit with the incoming Spike Flail?

What's the difference between having an on screen text indicator saying "Adds incoming!" and just having the game swarm your screen with adds. If you're not paying attention, then you're not paying attention. Boss mods don't tell you anything the game doesn't. The minute a mod (boss mods or not) start telling you information the game isn't intentionally set up to tell you, then it's not a mod anymore. It's 3rd party software, or botting. Mods and bots ARE NOT the same.

I don't know what's so hard to understand about this. Something like Windower was not a mod, it was 3rd party software, it did not work WITH the FFXI software, and within it's restrictions in guidelines. It worked independently to read memory and give you information you're not suppose to have. Mods work within the game software and do only what developers allow them to do. If Square doesn't want you to know there is incoming adds ahead of time, they don't have to. And there's nothing that a "MOD" can do to change that. A "MOD" cannot make unintended things happen.

Please keep in mind I know very little of mods, so forgive me if I'm lacking in knowledge and some of my post reflects that.

I imagine the main difference between a leader pushing out commands and a mod telling you what to do is that one involves teamwork and good leadership, making it a social experience, while the other option is you being told to click buttons by a machine and your team not really achieving so much. I for one would feel pretty unsatisfied if I just clicked buttons when the screen told me to. Compare that to watching for slight changes in the monster's appearance or movement. This could mean it's about to do something, and perhaps a mod could tell me that, but I would much rather learn from experience - learn about the movements/changes myself, gain true 'experience' and knowledge of the enemy, thus allowing me to catch on to it's habits and thus allow better chances to defeat it via knowing when to and when not to attack.

Likewise, a mod is, I imagine, rarely if ever wrong. It's too reliable. Having a leader that shouts out things to you and you taking it's advice builds trust and if they get it wrong, then the leader learns from that and (hopefully!) so do you. It's a team thing, and individual skill thing, a learning thing, an experience. It's like wanting to play a game without a walkthrough instead of with it. And for some, it's about showing off their achievements without having accusations of using mods that held your little baby-hand through the ordeal.

I like the idea of skill and knowledge of you and your teammates being more important than the knowledge of your mod and your ability to read and carry out it's instructions.

However, if mods don't tell you about the subtle things that SE would rather you learn from using your eyes, then I don't have a problem. If it's stuff that SE doesn't already have visible in the game then they don't want you to have it visible in that way. Enemy stamina, time until the enemy can next cast, weaknesses that are about to be used, stuff like that should be things you figure out from experience.

Again, I'm not experienced with mods and I'm not against them if they don't take away from the learning experience. If they tell me the HP of the enemy, fine. If they log chats and capture videos, cool. If they tell me that the enemy is going to cast ____ in ___ seconds and/or when you should use _____, that's not what it should do. The game doesn't tell me that right now, so obviously I'm not meant to know that.

[Ava]

Please keep in mind I know very little of mods, so forgive me if I'm lacking in knowledge and some of my post reflects that.

I imagine the main difference between a leader pushing out commands and a mod telling you what to do is that one involves teamwork and good leadership, making it a social experience, while the other option is you being told to click buttons by a machine and your team not really achieving so much. I for one would feel pretty unsatisfied if I just clicked buttons when the screen told me to. Compare that to watching for slight changes in the monster's appearance or movement. This could mean it's about to do something, and perhaps a mod could tell me that, but I would much rather learn from experience - learn about the movements/changes myself, gain true 'experience' and knowledge of the enemy, thus allowing me to catch on to it's habits and thus allow better chances to defeat it via knowing when to and when not to attack.

Likewise, a mod is, I imagine, rarely if ever wrong. It's too reliable. Having a leader that shouts out things to you and you taking it's advice builds trust and if they get it wrong, then the leader learns from that and (hopefully!) so do you. It's a team thing, and individual skill thing, a learning thing, an experience. It's like wanting to play a game without a walkthrough instead of with it. And for some, it's about showing off their achievements without having accusations of using mods that held your little baby-hand through the ordeal.

I like the idea of skill and knowledge of you and your teammates being more important than the knowledge of your mod and your ability to read and carry out it's instructions.

However, if mods don't tell you about the subtle things that SE would rather you learn from using your eyes, then I don't have a problem. If it's stuff that SE doesn't already have visible in the game then they don't want you to have it visible in that way. Enemy stamina, time until the enemy can next cast, weaknesses that are about to be used, stuff like that should be things you figure out from experience.

Again, I'm not experienced with mods and I'm not against them if they don't take away from the learning experience. If they tell me the HP of the enemy, fine. If they log chats and capture videos, cool. If they tell me that the enemy is going to cast ____ in ___ seconds and/or when you should use _____, that's not what it should do. The game doesn't tell me that right now, so obviously I'm not meant to know that.

Have you ever used a strategy guide, or have gone to a web site to read up on tactics for certain encounters in a game? The learning experience is still there whether boss mods are used or not. Your raid still needs communication or you won't succeed, it doesn't remove from the experience at all. It's simply a method of displaying already displayed information in the form of text instead of graphics.

A boss mod can tell you adds are coming. But it doesn't tell you how to deal with them. It doesn't tell you if you need to kill them, where you need to kill them, what spells to use, or anything. It simply says "Adds are coming". The rest is up to you, your raid leaders, and the rest of your raid. A boss mod might say "Mega Super Beam of Deathly Doom incoming, move away!", but it doesn't tell you where to move, it doesn't move for you, and it doesn't tell you what actually happens if you get hit. It's up to you, your raid leaders, and your raid to communicate these things both ahead of time and during the raid in order to make sure everyone understands everything.

Anyone who raided even semi-hardcorelike in WoW and used boss mods I'm sure can vouch for the fact that a bad player or a bad raid leader can kill a raid whether they are using boss mods or not. Not paying attention is not paying attention. And learning scripted bosses in MMORPGs require you to pay attention first and foremost.

[Nabiri]

Please keep in mind I know very little of mods, so forgive me if I'm lacking in knowledge and some of my post reflects that.

I imagine the main difference between a leader pushing out commands and a mod telling you what to do is that one involves teamwork and good leadership, making it a social experience, while the other option is you being told to click buttons by a machine and your team not really achieving so much. I for one would feel pretty unsatisfied if I just clicked buttons when the screen told me to. Compare that to watching for slight changes in the monster's appearance or movement. This could mean it's about to do something, and perhaps a mod could tell me that, but I would much rather learn from experience - learn about the movements/changes myself, gain true 'experience' and knowledge of the enemy, thus allowing me to catch on to it's habits and thus allow better chances to defeat it via knowing when to and when not to attack.

Likewise, a mod is, I imagine, rarely if ever wrong. It's too reliable. Having a leader that shouts out things to you and you taking it's advice builds trust and if they get it wrong, then the leader learns from that and (hopefully!) so do you. It's a team thing, and individual skill thing, a learning thing, an experience. It's like wanting to play a game without a walkthrough instead of with it. And for some, it's about showing off their achievements without having accusations of using mods that held your little baby-hand through the ordeal.

I like the idea of skill and knowledge of you and your teammates being more important than the knowledge of your mod and your ability to read and carry out it's instructions.

However, if mods don't tell you about the subtle things that SE would rather you learn from using your eyes, then I don't have a problem. If it's stuff that SE doesn't already have visible in the game then they don't want you to have it visible in that way. Enemy stamina, time until the enemy can next cast, weaknesses that are about to be used, stuff like that should be things you figure out from experience.

Again, I'm not experienced with mods and I'm not against them if they don't take away from the learning experience. If they tell me the HP of the enemy, fine. If they log chats and capture videos, cool. If they tell me that the enemy is going to cast ____ in ___ seconds and/or when you should use _____, that's not what it should do. The game doesn't tell me that right now, so obviously I'm not meant to know that.

I totally feel the same about this. Experience... making mistakes and learning from them. Becoming better. I prefer this than being told by some program how to react. I want to see with my own eyes.. be watchful of things.. and react based on what I've learned.

In any game I've always trusted a party more who has learning experience.
One example: In FFXI before power-leveling became over used people (well, most people) learned to watch their backs for other monsters approaching. Links could mean death.. so we learned to be careful. When power-leveling started happening in every party eventually many people stopped paying attention to their surroundings.. They would go afk in bad places or sometimes even run right into a monster. Stupid things. All because they felt safer. They stopped learning.

Edit: To clarify though, I am not against UI mods. I don't know if I'd use any, but if anything it may just be to make things look nicer or make things smaller and give me more space on the screen. I wouldn't use anything that tells me what attack a monster is using though. Just personal preference. I don't want it in shining red text or something.. I'll learn to watch for it on my own. If I miss something that's my problem and I'll learn from it.

I'm glad to see some people are happy about this UI thing. Interested to see what kind of changes it will bring.