We need more ways to make gold in this game.

[AzuraSin]

A game should not be modeled after real world.

I see your point but I disagree slightly. The reason it's modeled this way is because people don't get a feeling of accomplishment from "relaxing." Dungeons and battles are supposed to be exciting and fun as well as rewarding; without the reward aspect there's no point to doing any of this.

If the cost of running a dungeon is less than the reward of completion, there is a problem.

I disagree with this statement entirely. Can you please tell me why there is a problem to be required to do other things in-game to cover your dungeon running expenses?

[TrystWildkey]

I probably shouldn't be posting since I'm not going to add anything constructive to the thread.

However, I wanted to say that this is one of the only threads I've been eager to keep up with. I noticed this issue myself around the time this thread cropped up, so I've been following it. It also kinda ties in to my oft-repeated complaint that I can't repair anyone's gear but my own.

Also, I want to say that there are a large number of very intelligent and insightful posts that provide evidence that this is a real problem.

If you pay no attention to the obvious troll posts, this has been a very good discussion thread and I really hope that we get a dev response or at the very least acknowledgement that this is a valid issue.

If people are worried about additional gil causing inflation, I would propose that instead of increasing the amount of gil being brought into the economy, allow us to mine dark matter and allow player repairs. That should keep things on a more even keel.

[Whitemage82]

While I understand the danger gil sinks could put the economy in currently, you honestly believe Yoshi-P would allow that?

Take a step back and let's look at some facts.

1. The game can be changed.

2. Legacy servers have a large surplus of gil.

3. New servers will not have to worry about end game economy before patch 2.1 and 2.2 hit.

I am under the assumption that these huge hits to player wallets (in particular player housing) are designed to drain gil from legacy servers, until such a time as the devs think that all server economies are equal. Which is probably when we can expect Legacy character transfers.

In short I don't think you should worry unless you are scared for you own bank roll as a legacy player with too much money. They have a plan in place to maintain economic balance.

[Deusteele]

Several problems with your supposition Aixa.

1. Players cannot repair each others gear. You can only repair your own.
2. Level 5 Dark Matter is only available from vendors, there is no player generated way to gather this mandatory item.
3. The AH applies a 5% tax on all sales, there by removing gil from the economy.

[TrystWildkey]

Can you please tell me why there is a problem to be required to do other things in-game to cover your dungeon running expenses?

I can agree with you to a small extent. The problem *right now* with doing other things to cover dungeon expenses, is that it takes so much longer to do those 'other things.' No one wants to spend a majority of their available play time farming gil (via one method or another) just so they can spend less time doing the dungeon runs that they actually *want* to do. I think even a 50/50 split would be a bit much for a lot of players. Farm gil for 2 hours, just to afford 2 hours of dungeon runs, I'm a filthy casual and even I think that's too much.

[Aixa]

I did say there was enough incoming gil before suggesting dealing with other players. And yes its a game, but hey there are a lot of games that aren't how you like them but others like them. I do recall having to invest time in preparations for the harder stuff in the game in many other mmos.

How about just interacting with players for now in order to make your gil, and if the gil economy does somehow crash which I doubt we can make a thread then. I really don't want to see FFXIV turn into wow with dailies printing infinite money to cover buying stuff from the auction house.

I personally would be perfectly happy to have to prepare in order to do group content on my own by gathering resources and such and many other players would as well. That happened a lot anyway in other mmos but they had shiny blue or yellow question marks above their head while you did your farming, while now your just doing it for real people.

Also it only takes a LOT of time to cover your expenses if you focus only on introducing gil to the game. Just trade with players to cover your expenses for now im confident the economy wont deflate and crash. Farm monsters people want items for and youll cover the 4k+ in like 15 minutes.

[EmiliM]

Almost 50 pages later people are still arguing over the same thing?

The concern here is not about any individual player not being able to make enough money, but rather the economy as a whole losing more money than it generates as more people reach end game start to run out of ways to produce money from story quests and leves.

You might say "farm materials", but mats don't generate any new money unless they are sold to the NPC. I can sell you my farmed mats, but the money you're using to pay me comes from the money somebody else paid you for your goods. The source of the money, ultimately, must still come from the game itself, and at lv50, there isn't enough. Once you reach end game, everyone depletes (lost to the game) more money than they can generate into the game (NOT merely taking it from someone else), hence the OP's post.

It's still to early to panic, but the current trend does not bode well considering even more sinks (housing) will be coming in soon.

[TrystWildkey]

I personally would be perfectly happy to have to prepare in order to do group content on my own by gathering resources and such and many other players would as well. That happened a lot anyway in other mmos but they had shiny blue or yellow question marks above their head while you did your farming, while now your just doing it for real people.

Again, I agree, to an extent. But, the way it is set up right now, you'd spend MUCH more time 'preparing' than actually playing the content you want to play. I don't think that's acceptable to anyone.

[AzuraSin]

I can't think of any other ways to generate gil in the economy. Can you? I think that list covers it.

That's a good list and I'm not arguing that those are the obvious ways to make gil. I'm merely asserting there are other ways (or modifications to those ways) that may take more effort and time but do provide gil. It could be as simple as finding some items are easily gather-able (or farm-able) and craft-able into something worth vendoring to an NPC. All I've tried to say here is that there have to be things people aren't thinking of/trying. Giving up and saying the game doesn't hand you enough money to cover your repair costs is not a solution.

My original comment on this thread was that the system is working as intended, and I still believe that to be the case. Gil is rare compared to what it was in v1, and for people who never played v1 gil is just plain rare. That means stop teleporting so much, that means stop paying out the ear for items at the AH and make it yourself, etc. (in short, stop spending unnecessarily) and find a way to make gil that doesn't make you want to stab your face off (e.g. NPCing gathered items for 1g each).

The defensiveness in this thread is astounding.

[Altanas]

(I made a post but it seems to have not posted...) Just on issue of repairs and economy.

Repair costs v Dungeons are a major issue. Just look at SWTOR for example where players turn into morons disbanding after 1 or 2 mobs because they don't want to risk dying partying with the lesser skilled. Players don't want repair costs of 100k+ a week. Even in Version 1, dark matter was always a conciliation prize so you at least broke even.


As an aside, some gilsinks are ok like AH tax. But others will dictate enjoyability of the game. Repair costs is such. To be honest, repairs should be changed from the negative connotation to a more positive thing. It is like Surplus XP all over again. Rather than forcing to repair gear, we should be actively wanting crafters to insert dark matter as a form of a variety of temporary "enchantment". It would come over a lot better to the playerbase.