Insurection!

[JosiahGrey]

What else do your morals get you?

Not trying to be a smartass here, but to answer your question...

This generation makes decisions based upon only two considerations: what we want, and what we can get away with. This is not a moral decision matrix; it is amoral by definition. Morality is based upon the idea of right and wrong as absolutes. "What's in it for me", to paraphrase your above question? I avoid the penalties inherent to living an amoral life. Most of you will not understand that. Some of you will.

You are simply rationalizing amoral behavior. There's really no need to do that. Amoral behavior doesn't require an apology. Just do what you want to do and screw everyone else. I logged out of the game on Friday with the full realization that I would probably not be able to get back in until after the big server "fix". But I'm not an apologist for Square Enix. Whatever else you may think, please don't think that.

[Valiant]

Not trying to be a smartass here, but to answer your question...

This generation makes decisions based upon only two considerations: what we want, and what we can get away with. This is not a moral decision matrix; it is amoral by definition. Morality is based upon the idea of right and wrong as absolutes. "What's in it for me", to paraphrase your above question? I avoid the penalties inherent to living an amoral life. Most of you will not understand that. Some of you will.

You are simply rationalizing amoral behavior. There's really no need to do that. Amoral behavior doesn't require an apology. Just do what you want to do and screw everyone else. I logged out of the game on Friday with the full realization that I would probably not be able to get back in until after the big server "fix". But I'm not an apologist for Square Enix. Whatever else you may think, please don't think that.

thats like saying PK (player kills) should be taken out of games that have it cause it kills the fun... some games focus around PK.. i dont play them cause i dont enjoy them and not all games are equipped like wow with non-pvp servers. So if i chose to log in earlier in the day when i can get on instantly compared to later in the day and wait up to 3 hours ill log in earlier... NOTE: I AM A PAYING CUSTOMER. if SE is the reason I can't play cause they were too cheap to start with enough servers that's there fault not mine... Flame elsewhere

[Tsvai]

I don't really even feel I need an arbitrarily 'absolute' definition of what's right and wrong (ie: 'morality') to decide what to do in this situation. I think of it very simply: how would I feel if someone else did <action> to me? I would personally appreciate it if people would log out when they're done playing so that someone else (like myself) can have a chance. Therefore, I log out, hopefully to let someone else have a go at the game. No, it doesn't really get me anywhere (especially since there are so many who do not share this opinion), but not only do I not want to trash my laptop leaving it running the game for that many hours, but I would personally feel terrible leaving myself logged in, thinking about some poor sap that could be playing in my place. Yes, SE has made a pretty questionable decision (imo) not having an AFK kicker. I'm not going to use that as a justification for selfish behavior. SE is not forcing me to do anything.

[Rurushan]

Not trying to be a smartass here, but to answer your question...

This generation makes decisions based upon only two considerations: what we want, and what we can get away with. This is not a moral decision matrix; it is amoral by definition. Morality is based upon the idea of right and wrong as absolutes. "What's in it for me", to paraphrase your above question? I avoid the penalties inherent to living an amoral life. Most of you will not understand that. Some of you will.

You are simply rationalizing amoral behavior. There's really no need to do that. Amoral behavior doesn't require an apology. Just do what you want to do and screw everyone else. I logged out of the game on Friday with the full realization that I would probably not be able to get back in until after the big server "fix". But I'm not an apologist for Square Enix. Whatever else you may think, please don't think that.

What penalties, then? There are none. Nobody is going to care whether you specifically are AFKing on the server or not. Your 'penalties' are self-imposed or implied. If you have religious beliefs that imply that you are judged in the afterlife, thats fine and it's not my place to argue with you on such points, but again... you aren't 'screwing' anybody by AFKing. The one screwing US is SquareEnix. The reason why servers are full and why players have to force their way into the game is because of design choices and poor decisions made by them. You're still making the assumption that players not AFKing on servers is opening up slots for people who want to play. It's not. Even if there was an AFK kick timer or if everyone who AFKs all stopped for whatever reason, there would still be error 1017s all over the place until we get a proper login queue to sit in.

[Zoozo]

Ah. I'm learning things now. I assumed they are all connected. So I could stay logged in and it would have no impact on the logging in at all? I suppose I should read up more before attempting to start up acts of sedition.

[Rurushan]

Ah. I'm learning things now. I assumed they are all connected. So I could stay logged in and it would have no impact on the logging in at all? I suppose I should read up more before attempting to start up acts of sedition.

Not entirely true. What I meant was that there are just so many people trying to get onto the small handful of servers that even if all inactive players were kicked, the servers would still be at capacity with active players. An AFK kick timer is only half of the solution, the other half is a true login queue that can accomodate for all other players trying to get in (thousands or more). Having a queue means you don't have to actively be at the character login screen over and over trying to get in for 10 minutes, 30 minutes, and hour, whatever. You can enter the queue, then go and do something else while you wait, your time is not wasted. The queue would be REALLY slow though without an AFK kick timer booting out inactive players to make room for active ones. The AFK kick timer is useless on its own since the load will still be enough to have lots of players waiting to get into a server that is at capacity with active players. So we need both of these things.. not just one or the other.

[JosiahGrey]

What penalties, then? There are none.

I'll answer this question since it was asked civilly, although it is way off topic to anything to do with SE or this game.

The penalties incurred by amoral behavior in this lifetime (I'm not referring to an "afterlife" or literal judgment) are the effects it has on our relationships with the people around us. It's why marriages fail and families become dysfunctional. It's why your last girlfriend left you (I'm using that rhetorically, not pointing a finger at you specifically). Selfishness and greed become spiritually debilitating when indulged over time.

Now, on a moral scale of one to ten, with "one" being driving five miles an hour over the posted speed limit and "ten" being the mass murder of innocents, failing to log out of an online game after you have finished playing it is, oh, I don't know, probably around a zero-point-eight. So I don't think I'm overstating my case. Yes, it's fairly trivial in terms of the moral absolute.

Be that as it may, it's still pissing me off...

[Zoozo]

Completely agree. Both are needed. I Can gladly deal with a long queue if I know that ppl are getting booted. It's really a no brainer. I like the game, But it is full of things that they decided to change for change sake, that no only don't make the game better, but in most cases, are just tedious. Like the extra step of picking the item to hand over in quest objectives. And the excuse for it was almost insulting.

[Design]

Yoshi P already said they were discussing an AFK system at PAX.

Highly suggest before you post something, you read stuff first. All you have to do is google "Yoshi P Pax" and articles come up about it.

[Zoozo]

Well I've looked at a couple of things that showed he was discussing it or thinking about it, neither of which I find acceptable. I feeling I've gotten from those statements and from the fact that it's not listed as one of the things being done tonight, is that he doesn't think it is important. If he thought it would help, he'd be doing it. And maybe I'm wrong. Me and everyone else. Just makes more sense to me than adding more servers that are going to get filled up right away as soon as they start selling again. We'll see tomorrow morning.