Insurection!

[Rurushan]

Ruru-

I do understand what you're saying about the game being flawed by design. Really.

Still, there is a moral component in deciding you are thereby justified to take an action which you know will restrict another player's access to the game.

SE should fix this. Ideally, we should choose to do that which is right. I know, I'm just a crazy dreamer.

Do what is right? We PAID MONEY to play this game and you're saying the RIGHT thing to do is to not try to play it? I can't. I can't even. You're a level 52 White Knight. Please humor me, tell me how someone who has bought the game with their own money, works an 8 or 9 hour shift plus transit time, comes home and makes dinner, does daily chores around the house, and finally sits down at his/her computer and cant play because they dont have the time to forcibly shove their way into their server is supposed to 'do what is right'.

To put ANY amount of blame on the players for how things currently work is just... there are no words.

[JosiahGrey]

Please humor me, tell me how someone who has bought the game with their own money, works an 8 or 9 hour shift plus transit time, comes home and makes dinner, does daily chores around the house, and finally sits down at his/her computer and cant play because they dont have the time to forcibly shove their way into their server is supposed to 'do what is right'.

Well, basically, that would be me. I've chosen to not play until Wednesday after the big server "fix". We'll see how that pans out.

[Rurushan]

Well, basically, that would be me. I've chosen to not play until Wednesday after the big server "fix". We'll see how that pans out.

So your 'moral high ground' means you suffer more than anyone who is actually fighting for better service. What else do your morals get you? Basically what I'm saying is, who cares other than you? Nobody. It's a nice thought that you think you're 'doing the right thing' but it's by you and only for you. I'm not saying be a dick to everyone because 'nice guys finish last', I'm saying your actions are not going to impact anyone else but you in this case. So long as the majority of players are doing the LOGICAL thing and trying to make the most of their purchase in this way... the small handful of players choosing to be 'nice' (in their own heads, of course) will have no visible effect on our problems.

I mean, whatever helps you sleep at night... but nobody is going to thank you for it because you didn't actually DO anything... I could logically go and thank all of my friends for not even owning the game because it means they are a few less people I have to basically fight to get a slot on the server. They didn't do anything either, does it really make a difference if your act of doing nothing is backed by high morals and theirs isnt? The answer is no, thats called being naive.

[JosiahGrey]

What else do your morals get you?

Not trying to be a smartass here, but to answer your question...

This generation makes decisions based upon only two considerations: what we want, and what we can get away with. This is not a moral decision matrix; it is amoral by definition. Morality is based upon the idea of right and wrong as absolutes. "What's in it for me", to paraphrase your above question? I avoid the penalties inherent to living an amoral life. Most of you will not understand that. Some of you will.

You are simply rationalizing amoral behavior. There's really no need to do that. Amoral behavior doesn't require an apology. Just do what you want to do and screw everyone else. I logged out of the game on Friday with the full realization that I would probably not be able to get back in until after the big server "fix". But I'm not an apologist for Square Enix. Whatever else you may think, please don't think that.

[Valiant]

Not trying to be a smartass here, but to answer your question...

This generation makes decisions based upon only two considerations: what we want, and what we can get away with. This is not a moral decision matrix; it is amoral by definition. Morality is based upon the idea of right and wrong as absolutes. "What's in it for me", to paraphrase your above question? I avoid the penalties inherent to living an amoral life. Most of you will not understand that. Some of you will.

You are simply rationalizing amoral behavior. There's really no need to do that. Amoral behavior doesn't require an apology. Just do what you want to do and screw everyone else. I logged out of the game on Friday with the full realization that I would probably not be able to get back in until after the big server "fix". But I'm not an apologist for Square Enix. Whatever else you may think, please don't think that.

thats like saying PK (player kills) should be taken out of games that have it cause it kills the fun... some games focus around PK.. i dont play them cause i dont enjoy them and not all games are equipped like wow with non-pvp servers. So if i chose to log in earlier in the day when i can get on instantly compared to later in the day and wait up to 3 hours ill log in earlier... NOTE: I AM A PAYING CUSTOMER. if SE is the reason I can't play cause they were too cheap to start with enough servers that's there fault not mine... Flame elsewhere

[Rurushan]

Not trying to be a smartass here, but to answer your question...

This generation makes decisions based upon only two considerations: what we want, and what we can get away with. This is not a moral decision matrix; it is amoral by definition. Morality is based upon the idea of right and wrong as absolutes. "What's in it for me", to paraphrase your above question? I avoid the penalties inherent to living an amoral life. Most of you will not understand that. Some of you will.

You are simply rationalizing amoral behavior. There's really no need to do that. Amoral behavior doesn't require an apology. Just do what you want to do and screw everyone else. I logged out of the game on Friday with the full realization that I would probably not be able to get back in until after the big server "fix". But I'm not an apologist for Square Enix. Whatever else you may think, please don't think that.

What penalties, then? There are none. Nobody is going to care whether you specifically are AFKing on the server or not. Your 'penalties' are self-imposed or implied. If you have religious beliefs that imply that you are judged in the afterlife, thats fine and it's not my place to argue with you on such points, but again... you aren't 'screwing' anybody by AFKing. The one screwing US is SquareEnix. The reason why servers are full and why players have to force their way into the game is because of design choices and poor decisions made by them. You're still making the assumption that players not AFKing on servers is opening up slots for people who want to play. It's not. Even if there was an AFK kick timer or if everyone who AFKs all stopped for whatever reason, there would still be error 1017s all over the place until we get a proper login queue to sit in.

[Zoozo]

Ah. I'm learning things now. I assumed they are all connected. So I could stay logged in and it would have no impact on the logging in at all? I suppose I should read up more before attempting to start up acts of sedition.

[Rurushan]

Ah. I'm learning things now. I assumed they are all connected. So I could stay logged in and it would have no impact on the logging in at all? I suppose I should read up more before attempting to start up acts of sedition.

Not entirely true. What I meant was that there are just so many people trying to get onto the small handful of servers that even if all inactive players were kicked, the servers would still be at capacity with active players. An AFK kick timer is only half of the solution, the other half is a true login queue that can accomodate for all other players trying to get in (thousands or more). Having a queue means you don't have to actively be at the character login screen over and over trying to get in for 10 minutes, 30 minutes, and hour, whatever. You can enter the queue, then go and do something else while you wait, your time is not wasted. The queue would be REALLY slow though without an AFK kick timer booting out inactive players to make room for active ones. The AFK kick timer is useless on its own since the load will still be enough to have lots of players waiting to get into a server that is at capacity with active players. So we need both of these things.. not just one or the other.

[JosiahGrey]

What penalties, then? There are none.

I'll answer this question since it was asked civilly, although it is way off topic to anything to do with SE or this game.

The penalties incurred by amoral behavior in this lifetime (I'm not referring to an "afterlife" or literal judgment) are the effects it has on our relationships with the people around us. It's why marriages fail and families become dysfunctional. It's why your last girlfriend left you (I'm using that rhetorically, not pointing a finger at you specifically). Selfishness and greed become spiritually debilitating when indulged over time.

Now, on a moral scale of one to ten, with "one" being driving five miles an hour over the posted speed limit and "ten" being the mass murder of innocents, failing to log out of an online game after you have finished playing it is, oh, I don't know, probably around a zero-point-eight. So I don't think I'm overstating my case. Yes, it's fairly trivial in terms of the moral absolute.

Be that as it may, it's still pissing me off...