Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

[siverstorm]

Hey guys, i'm from the german forum, may my english isn't the best ^^

my main is healer, but i really like to play my dragoon. And i've learned a lot now from the first post, thx for this detailed guide
my question is now, how much determination is 1 strength? is it possible to calculate that or something?
and is det to dex, or det to mind always the same value?

Weapon Damage: 8.732
Strength: 1
Determination: .325
Crit: 0.204
Skill Speed: .178

1/0.325 = 3.077 det
So one STR is roughly 3 DET.

The stat weights vary per job, on bard DET is worth something like 0.318 DEX, whm/sch DET is the same as drg at 0.325, for Monk det is 0.332. The assumed weight for ninja is currently the same as monk but I think it's unconfirmed, not sure.

[Arg0n]

Many thanks for your fast reply

[Vodomir]

Dex means a big load of nothing for dragoon. Anyway, the stat values for up to 2.4 were:

Weapon Damage: 8.732
Strength: 1
Determination: .325
Crit: 0.204
Skill Speed: .178

I do not know if any of those changed at all with the new gear from 2.4 or not. If they did change then it would only be very slight and you can still use that as a base guideline.

Aren't those the most recent stat weights for 2.4?

[Ricdeau]

Aren't those the most recent stat weights for 2.4?

Like I said, I wasn't sure if they had changed post 2.4, but any changes would only be slight and you could still easily begin building sets on the pre 2.4 values. I've seen a couple different revisions typically with crit slightly higher than pre 2.4 values, but nothing with any substantial backing to it yet. Please don't think I am saying changes are false...just not much data on it.

[siverstorm]

I should've figured the weights changed since the jump updates.

I was also thinking this thread should be re-upped to keep stat weights and BiS sheets updated since it looks like Ayvar isn't around anymore.

[HulveinBlitz]

Ayvar visits randomly, but idk if he still reads and follows the topic.

[Dervy]

Aren't those the most recent stat weights for 2.4?

EMX still plays? I thought he quit for Wildstar like I did... Such a big mistake. How does one contact him now? Reddit still?

Adding those weights to my updated solver.

And hi guys, I'm back after 6 months (lol)...

I'd be interested in some updated MNK weights. I understand that EMX isn't playing anymore, so would it be possible for him to release his spreadsheets or other resources he uses to get his weights from? That way he wouldn't have to be bothered every other patch. :P

Well, looks like I got my answer.

I have a few of his old spreadsheets still (luckily) and I'll be going over his stuff later to understand his Sim and how it worked. I think I can remember his methodology as well, so that's a plus. I've only just came back so I still need to swallow all of the casual scrub stuff, like finishing off the Second Coil, and going above i100 (crafted gear > all!)

Do any of you feel that there's a minimum threshold of skill speed that should be reached to have a "safe" rotation? I remember a discussion about the drop of Heavy Thrust buff just upon reapplying Heavy Thrust, but I don't remember how that ended.

If I remember correctly, the Rotation created has a minimum threshold of 342 SS for it to actually work properly.

Now, I don't know if we're talking about the same thing here but... As for a maximum, there was a discussion about it I proposed months back, where I calculated once we go above a maximum skillspeed (I think it were 482 + Selene SS Buff, 530+ unbuffed, I check later) our rotation breaks down. It was only a month or two later I found out EMX looked through my work and suggested we switch from H-IDC-P-TTT to H-P-IDC-TTT once we break that threshold. My alternative solution was switching to the old school H-IDC-P-F-TTT.

I think he meant that "since the gap between Det and Crit is smaller than before", and "we find more amounts of Crit on gear rather than Det anyway", it would not really be an issue if "dragoons swapped a couple of pieces to increase Crit rather than just focus on smaller amounts of Det". He did not state that Crit > Det, if I read that correctly. Also, good job for contacting EMX - I was actually wondering if there was any chance of him checking the values post-patch.

Precisely. It's not the weighting itself that could makes Crit > Det, but the item budgets on the i120-i130 gear that causes this. For X Determination, you'd get Y Crit on a particular gear slot (Which is usually more as it's a tertiary skill). When you multiply the weights with the actual stats you'd get on your gear, Crit gives you an overall higher gear weighting, if that makes sense. Point for point, DET will always be better than Crit however.

[HulveinBlitz]

Someone contacted him, and got his views a few pages back.

[rickyguo]

If I remember correctly, the Rotation created has a minimum threshold of 342 SS for it to actually work properly.

Now, I don't know if we're talking about the same thing here but... As for a maximum, there was a discussion about it I proposed months back, where I calculated once we go above a maximum skillspeed (I think it were 482 + Selene SS Buff, 530+ unbuffed, I check later) our rotation breaks down. It was only a month or two later I found out EMX looked through my work and suggested we switch from H-IDC-P-TTT to H-P-IDC-TTT once we break that threshold. My alternative solution was switching to the old school H-IDC-P-F-TTT.

default ss is 341 and everythings fine without any skillspeed in gear

we can't go back to fracture, even if it's a slight dps gain, the tp costs would be too high since we're looking at 530 skillspeed.

honestly, you can go 0 skillspeed in gear with the new i130 sets and I might just do that.

[Dervy]

default ss is 341 and everythings fine without any skillspeed in gear

we can't go back to fracture, even if it's a slight dps gain, the tp costs would be too high since we're looking at 530 skillspeed.

honestly, you can go 0 skillspeed in gear with the new i130 sets and I might just do that.

Yup. Which is why no one should never go above those Skillspeeds, ever. (Unless gear progression forces us to do so).

To be honest, I've not had a proper look at the i130 stuff. I'm still trying to think of the quickest way too gear to i110... I do love the that the new gear hardly has any SS though. Also, I'm slightly amused that going i110/5 -> i130/5 is approximately a 70dps increase.