Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

[Vodomir]

I don't really have a horse in this race... But I'm curious as to the dispute here.. If the duration of the entire fight is X (598 sec), and damage dealt is Y (224,283). Y/X = ~375 DPS. How is downtime not calculated in that? Seems like it would reflect the overall DPS properly, given it's based on the total duration of the fight. Unless the duration is what's being argued here.

As far as I understand that's because the whole encounter gets separated into a series of smaller encounters if certain downtimes are long enough. Lets say an encounter has one forced downtime where the boss and for like 30 seconds and there's also no other mobs to attack or get attacked from. So the fight goes like phase 1 --> downtime --> phase 2. Now lets also assume that Phase 1 and 2 each last like 2 minutes, so the whole encounter would take 4:30 to complete. If ACT is set up to cull encounters after 6 seconds of downtime, then it will not measure the whole encounter, but create two encounters instead, one for Phase 1 which is 2:06 min (2 minutes of real fighting and 6 seconds downtime before the encounter gets culled), and one encounter for Phase 2 which will also be 2:06 min. After merging those encounters the total encounter time will be calculated as the total time of encounter 1 + total time of encounter 2, thus resulting in 4:12 min, which is not exactly the same as 4:30 which will in turn be resulting in higher EncDPS. Now imagine a fight with even more and/or longer downtimes et voila, there's your way to bolster DPS.

[Sygmaelle]

A video would be nice.

Our group push with 3 meteors in first phase, go into last phase right after 2nd heavensfall and kill shortly after 2nd set of divebomb, yet we can barely break 10 mins mark.

By havin replaced our marauder with another bard we had the exact condition as you described here and no under 10 mins either.

Im kinda puzzled

edit : actually 10.34 and we had 2 dpsers that died, so very possible, I rest my case

[Hakmatic]

By havin replaced our marauder with another bard we had the exact condition as you described here and no under 10 mins either.

Im kinda puzzled

edit : actually 10.34 and we had 2 dpsers that died, so very possible, I rest my case

I like you, and thanks , also i quoted the wrong thing but whatever lol

[whiskeybravo]

snip

OK, so it's the duration being disputed, then. Thanks for clarifying how that works. I started on ps3, now on ps4, so never messed around with them.

So it really just comes down to how much "downtime" is being included/excluded from the calculations? I mean that makes sense, you do typically want to know what your damage is outside of downtime. I don't know, I kinda feel like it should just be straight measures to compare to other groups (by that I mean the entire duration of the fight, without subtracting the "downtime" since everyone is dealing with the same mechanics)

[Sleigh]

After merging those encounters the total encounter time will be calculated as the total time of encounter 1 + total time of encounter 2, thus resulting in 4:12 min, which is not exactly the same as 4:30 which will in turn be resulting in higher EncDPS. Now imagine a fight with even more and/or longer downtimes et voila, there's your way to bolster DPS.

This is exactly how it works under default settings. The downtime is simply not part of the duration, it is a blank spot in the parse and isn't counted once people stop doing actions. Depending on how much downtime you have, culling can skew your results wildly from group to group, or from your result to your result (IE normally your group does nothing for 30 seconds in a phase, but in one particular pull there are huge heals needed for a large portion of that - you may do nothing different, but your healers will be doing stuff and adding total time to the parse and your DPS will tank, which isn't quite a fair comparison to your other pulls).

Merging your parse, or using the All section, will not calculate the downtime if it applies, since the culling makes it effectively shut off your parse until someone starts doing relevant actions. That's why I'm a fan of one big parse, downtime included - you get consistency, one flat universal standard which gives an undeniably accurate total DPS. That being said, culling for sure has its use in telling who's doing what in particular phase, who's not picking up the slack, who's not saving CDs, which jobs stink at certain sections, etc, which can be just as important as total DPS.

[Hakmatic]

Can you damage the boss during downtime? No, So overall damage done is calculated to give you a dps number, IT doesnt matter if a parse is split into 780248979235 different pieces, damage done is always going be damage done, and always accounted the downtime, so you do the math.

[Vodomir]

Can you damage the boss during downtime? No, So overall damage done is calculated to give you a dps number, IT doesnt matter if a parse is split into 780248979235 different pieces, damage done is always going be damage done, and always accounted the downtime, so you do the math.

You do realize that overall damage is not the same as DPS? Overall damage is just a flat damage number, while DPS is a function of damage and the time needed to put up that damage. There is a big difference in DPS if you do a set amount of x damage in 9:30 as opposed to 10:30. You cannot just leave out the downtimes and act like they don't have any influence on your DPS numbers. A DPS parse not accounting for downtimes will always show higher DPS figures as opposed to a parse that accounts for the downtimes. So lets assume you parse the whole fight in one big parse (therefore accounting for downtimes) and another member of your static parses the exact same fight split into 780248979235 different pieces and later on merges those pieces - guess whose parse will show higher DPS numbers, though you've both parsed the exact same fight and both of you recorded almost identical overall damage for your performance? Not accounting for downtimes DOES pad DPS numbers by a good margin, depending on the ratio of downtime/combat time and depending on how early your encounters are culled.

PS:
You are the one that actually refuses to do the math here.

[Hakmatic]

This is exactly how it works under default settings. The downtime is simply not part of the duration, it is a blank spot in the parse and isn't counted once people stop doing actions. Depending on how much downtime you have, culling can skew your results wildly from group to group, or from your result to your result (IE normally your group does nothing for 30 seconds in a phase, but in one particular pull there are huge heals needed for a large portion of that - you may do nothing different, but your healers will be doing stuff and adding total time to the parse and your DPS will tank, which isn't quite a fair comparison to your other pulls).

Merging your parse, or using the All section, will not calculate the downtime if it applies, since the culling makes it effectively shut off your parse until someone starts doing relevant actions.

So your saying that the SS ricky posted to prove something to me is wrong too since the stuff there is merged?

[Sleigh]

So your saying that the SS ricky posted to prove something to me is wrong too since the stuff there is merged?

Yep, there's downtime not accounted for there too. Basically any parse with anyone who didn't die having different durations by more than a couple seconds is almost certainly culling by enough that downtime isn't factored into the total time and skews the EncDPS. In all probability that was a 10:30~ duration parse, based on downtime not being counted and the DPS numbers I've seen.

His point could still be valid in the sense that they may have done more total DPS and cleared it "later" than your group, though it's hard to say since they could have less downtime due to less healing during parts.