Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

[Maero]

A lot of useful info here for a job that none wants to bring to coil...

What reason do people have or they just hate Dragoons?

[Casterbridge]

What reason do people have or they just hate Dragoons?

From whatI've seen the big issues is the fights are generally unfriendly to melee. Next a lot of the dragoon utility is useless in the raid. Most believe a monk has better single target damage than dragoon (not saying this is true or untrue just stating popular opinion I've seen) also the monk has slightly better usable utility.

So, especially in PuG groups, dragoons are pretty much bottom of the barrel choice wise, with monks close behind, it's just easier to bring ranged dps, think the most popular groups formed right now are 2x paladins, 2x bard, 1x BM, 1x other ranged, 1x White Mage and 1x Scholar.

Again this is what I'm seeing as popular opinion, doesn't mean a dragoon can't go in and do well in Coil.

[Sparhwk]

SNip....
Again this is what I'm seeing as popular opinion, doesn't mean a dragoon can't go in and do well in Coil.

I've done coil turn 4 twice now as Dragoon. Popular opinion is nothing but hogwash. Most people get a retarted idea in their head and stick with it despite not knowing how things actually work or basing their idea on an imperfect parse.

Like any raid it can be a pain for melee but it's perfectly learnable and you can stay close to best dps with ranged as you learn the encounters and little tricks to make the fight eaiser. Coil is more abuot player skill than class comp, other than paladins due to damage intake.

[Bossmoney]

Most believe a monk has better single target damage than dragoon

If you have one Bard in your party, your Disembowel buff will increase his damage by 15-20% which will already be slightly more than the difference between DRG & MNK dps since BRD dps is easier to maintain. If your party has 2 or more BRDs, then it becomes no contest.

[himehime]

If you have one Bard in your party, your Disembowel buff will increase his damage by 15-20% which will already be slightly more than the difference between DRG & MNK dps since BRD dps is easier to maintain. If your party has 2 or more BRDs, then it becomes no contest.

consider that 20% of a bards damage will typically come from DoTs, and that disembowel doesn't affect the DoT effect they have. it's probably a bit lower than 10% tbh - but BRDs do end up doing more dmg than DRG when disembowel is kept up (i do something like 255~ on FFXIV app, 265-270~ on logrep. a BRD with less gear than me on a dummy with disembowel up did 265-275ish (difference between our parses) with FFXIV app, 270 on logrep

[LongNu]

Most believe a monk has better single target damage than dragoon (not saying this is true or untrue just stating popular opinion I've seen) also the monk has slightly better usable utility.

This couldn't be further from the truth. DRG is by far the best single target DPS uninterrupted. What lowers their DPS is the clunky endgame mechanics where you have to constantly dodge. Monks make up for it by the utility they provide to the raid. My group runs 2x DRG just for the insane damage output we can put out in coil. Also DRG utility shouldn't really even be considered 'utility' but 'synergy'. They synergize well with bards because of the obvious debuff they provide.

[himehime]

This couldn't be further from the truth. DRG is by far the best single target DPS uninterrupted. What lowers their DPS is the clunky endgame mechanics where you have to constantly dodge. Monks make up for it by the utility they provide to the raid. My group runs 2x DRG just for the insane damage output we can put out in coil. Also DRG utility shouldn't really even be considered 'utility' but 'synergy'. They synergize well with bards because of the obvious debuff they provide.

post video/log where you parse higher than mnk/smn uninterrupted over 240s or more, if you're so convinced~

(before you call out the parser on being faulty, you can calculate smn dps with napkin math and underestimate it, and it'd still smash drg dps lol)

[Ayvar]

you can calculate smn dps with napkin math and underestimate it, and it'd still smash drg dps lol

I'd be very interested to see this. Feel free to post the napkin math, I'm not familiar with the optimal summoner rotation/priority.

[Vodomir]

post video/log where you parse higher than mnk/smn uninterrupted over 240s or more, if you're so convinced~

(before you call out the parser on being faulty, you can calculate smn dps with napkin math and underestimate it, and it'd still smash drg dps lol)

According to another thread that guy parsed 277 DPS in a 7-man Titan HM fight while being trapped multiple times. Maybe you bring some mnk/smn numbers ...

[himehime]

using dps in titan as a baseline is silly, especially as a melee dps. lb in titan inflates your DPS by quite a bit with both apps - and there's no hard evidence for that 277 dps either. feel free to parse 277+ on dummies as a baseline though!

this monk video has been linked to death already, but here you go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVDqzSBUhKY

regarding summoner napkin math - there was a long post about it in one of the summoner threads; i'll try to find it later, but iirc it showed 300~ dps a summoner isn't unrealistic even with hand by hand dps calculation.