Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

[EasymodeX]

Phlebotomize has a piercing-adjusted total potency of 307 (170*1.1+20*18/3). This results in a DPS (assuming 2.5s GCDs) of 123 and damage per TP of 3.4.

The Thrust combo has an adjusted total potency of 715 (650*1.1). This is a DPS of 95 over the full combo, and DPT of 3.8.

Oh, Phleb is less TP-efficient than I thought it would be, but that's a lot more DPS. So in any TP-constrained situation you'd want to drop it for Thrust combos.

Fracture has a pierce-adjusted DPS of 92 and DPT of 2.9 ... so don't use it at all assuming you're finishing every Thrust combo and not dropping the third strike due to buff/debuff constraints. In other words, Fracture is a better "loose" GCD to spend than Thrust x2, or Thrust x1. However, if your choice is a full Thrust x3 versus injecting a Fracture, then Thrust x3 is better.

This is probably only relevant when TP management is not an issue, e.g. shorter fights. In addition, Fracture is probably effective to stack for cooldown bursting (since it does the "snapshot" DOT as described previously).

However, either way dropping Fracture probably won't result in much of a DPS loss overall, and may increase DPS due to its poor DPT.

Note: the DPS and DPT of a loose Impulse Drive + Disembowel (e.g. no Chaos Thrust) is 88 and 3.4, so it's not that bad to use as a filler if you can't get the full Thrust combo off. Fracture seems to be Not Worth It.


To recap the above numbers (DPS, DPT):

Phleb: 123, 3.4
Thrustx3: 95, 3.8
Frac: 92, 2.9
IM-DI: 88, 3.4

You cannot macro your combos the same way Pugilists can because even if you are on Vorpal Thrust in your rotation, the ability to use True Thrust isn't blocked

IMO they really need to change this. There's zero added gameplay value for allowing the player to use vorpal if true fails or isn't used. It's simply obnoxious.

lol, i was nowhere near the master. I'm just not afraid of numbers and decent with excel. but yeah, on that game i was seyon on the forums and xyaie in game, now im xyaie on the forums and seyon in game :P

I remember you ...

[xyaie]

I remember you ...

and i you.

Was actually discussing your findings with stormfall until i saw your name. (you talked to him about zerker stuff in skype apparently back in the tera days).

I need to make a spreadsheet though to figure out exactly how long of a fight it will have to be for TP to even be a problem. I'd imagine only a primal or big fate boss would you ever consider TP, and with a bard ive yet to have any real TP issues at times when im not AoEing. Of course, I'm not 50 yet.

[Brynmor]

...

However, either way dropping Fracture probably won't result in much of a DPS loss overall... Fracture seems to be Not Worth It.

...

After the testing I did I think you are correct. I was already on the fence about using Fracture but after learning that the DoT does not benefit from Disembowel I think only using it as GCD filler or with CDs popped, as you suggested, is likely the way to go. More anecdotally, after playing around with DPSing on a targeting dummy without using Fracture I was able to execute the entire Full Thrust combo much more often.

On the subject of GCD fillers, what about Feint? Obviously it's not going to be the highest DPS ability you could use on a free GCD but I believe tanks are incapable of inflicting Slow and tossing it up on a boss could be helpful to the group as a whole. I don't think we should aim to keep 100% slow uptime but I think using Feint on the occasional free GCD may be worth considering.

[Ayvar]

I rechecked my math and never found a flaw. from the data i have available they seem accurate (shy of skill speed for the reasons posted). i just dinged 50, but work the next 6 days in a row :-/ ill probably have more tested later.

Good to hear! I've been using those numbers to make my Darklight decisions. One thing I'd love to know is the Accuracy cap. People often forget to maintain their accuracy at a good level, since missing abilities as a Dragoon will murder your dps.

After the testing I did I think you are correct. I was already on the fence about using Fracture but after learning that the DoT does not benefit from Disembowel I think only using it as GCD filler or with CDs popped, as you suggested, is likely the way to go. More anecdotally, after playing around with DPSing on a targeting dummy without using Fracture I was able to execute the entire Full Thrust combo much more often.

There is an issue with dropping Fracture. Even though it doesn't hit as hard as Phlebotomize, it is still a dps increase. The reason is that dropping Fracture from the rotation will cause you to overwrite your Heavy Thrust buff and Phlebotomize DoT by at least 2 seconds. There is space for a single ability in the few seconds that HT is still running and Phlebotomize is still ticking, and Fracture fills it nicely. If you're having issues with executing the rotation and hitting your Full Thrusts with the HT buff still active pick up a little more spell speed. I've found a huge improvement in my time lost to movement just from dropping down to a 2.4 GCD. Also even if you don't like Fracture it is still great to use when you have any kind of downtime from dpsing bosses, such as when Garuda teleports away and you have to LoS, the DoTs will keep ticking.

On the subject of GCD fillers, what about Feint? Obviously it's not going to be the highest DPS ability you could use on a free GCD but I believe tanks are incapable of inflicting Slow and tossing it up on a boss could be helpful to the group as a whole. I don't think we should aim to keep 100% slow uptime but I think using Feint on the occasional free GCD may be worth considering.

xyaie has the right of it in that Feint is enough of a dps loss that you wouldn't want it in your regular rotation, however I've been finding it to be very useful when fighting adds or waiting for something to be picked up before dropping the deeps on it. For example, when dealing with the two adds on Garuda, I'll Feint both of them to help reduce the large amounts of AE damage during that phase, as well as give myself something to do while I wait for the OT to grab them. You are correct that Feint is an excellent tool in our repertoire, but it isn't as useful in a primary rotation as just putting out more dps.

[xyaie]

Good to hear! I've been using those numbers to make my Darklight decisions. One thing I'd love to know is the Accuracy cap. People often forget to maintain their accuracy at a good level, since missing abilities as a Dragoon will murder your dps.

The calculator doesnt include accy, but if its a linear increase like most games (ex: each point is a .04% chance to hit, you have a xx% chance to miss) then it would be easy to assign an EP value to it in line with the rest. Atleast with skill speed (not perfectly accurate but a good idea).

best i can gather from a quick google search (dont have as much time as i'd like right now unfortunately) shows 412 as never missing ifrit, 404 as missing him 3%. the difference seems too much so i'd assume RNG based. I can likely do a bit of testing on the combat dummy, but without knowing the exact rules of the game it could be close to useless without knowing if there is a DR (i'd hope not, life gets too complicated with hit having a DR), the hit chance changes per enemy (im actually thinking this will be the case) and if each attack has its own hit/miss chance.

[EasymodeX]

Does Fracture have a duration of 30s or 18s? I had used 18s in my spreadsheet based on one source but I just saw another that had more detail, clarifying that the duration is changed to 30s after level 28. Is that right? If it's 30s then it is efficient.

Edit: Nevermind, that's the traited Fracture. Silly websites listing traited MRD values for DRG.

On a separate subject, I double checked and the TP regen is 60 per 3s, not 30, so yeah I'm guesstimating roughly 30 burn, 20 regen per second. 100 seconds of burn without Invig., 150s with. Only able to use about 75% of GCDs after you run dry.

Edit:

Apparently I can't make another post. So:

So I looked at the rotation in the OP in detail and it has 89% HT uptime (assuming HT does not buff itself, which is a safe-ish assumption based on the "snapshot" behavior for DOTs), 89% DE uptime, 89% CT uptime, and 80% PH uptime.


Another way to write your rotation is:

HT FR PH ID DE CT TT VT FT
HT FR PH TT VT FT ID DE CT
HT FR PH TT VT FT TT VT FT

The HT buff does not time neatly with the ID/DE/CT (herafter referred to as IDC combo or IDC), so you are using HT to anchor the rotation and shifting the IDC to accomodate the timing. The issue is that this full rotation does not overlap with itself. The third line of that rotation has no IDC sequence, because you used it at the "end" of the second line. The problem is that when you repeat this rotation, the first half of the "4th" line will not have the DE debuff or CT DOT, resulting in 89% uptime only.

Assuming we stick to strict-ish 2.5s GCDs (e.g. no/low skill speed), I drafted a rotation based on using IDC as the anchor (because it's the largest and most awkward part of the sequence):

IDC HT ttt PH ttt HT
IDC PH ttt HT ttt PH

This is a 2-line rotation that's anchored by IDC, and alternates HT-PH-HT with PH-HT-PH. This results in 100% uptime for DE, PH, HT, and CT. The "ttt" refers to the True/Vorpal/Full Thrust combo filler. The main difference in my rotation is that the staggered HT/PH and PH/HT allows the HT-PH 20-second timing to interleave with the IDC 30-second timing without conflict. The problem is that the rotation is susceptible to clipping the CT DOT (everything else doesn't matter much) if you have any skill speed because it is exactly 100% uptime (this is a bad thing). The solution to that is some combination of "use Jump before CT" or "use off-GCD buffs before CT" or simply stutter the CT by a half second (make sure CT ticks down to 1.xx before you press the button). The other issue is that with a lot of skill speed the whole rotation's borked because it's pretty tight.

[Ayvar]

Does Fracture have a duration of 30s or 18s? I had used 18s in my spreadsheet based on one source but I just saw another that had more detail, clarifying that the duration is changed to 30s after level 28. Is that right? If it's 30s then it is efficient.

It's an 18s duration, but I find it's better to think in terms of potency. Both Fracture and Phlebotomize have a 120 potency DoT (18/3*20), and Chaos Thrust has a 200 potency DoT.

[xyaie]

Does Fracture have a duration of 30s or 18s? I had used 18s in my spreadsheet based on one source but I just saw another that had more detail, clarifying that the duration is changed to 30s after level 28. Is that right? If it's 30s then it is efficient.

Edit: Nevermind, that's the traited Fracture. Silly websites listing traited MRD values for DRG.

On a separate subject, I double checked and the TP regen is 60 per 3s, not 30, so yeah I'm guesstimating roughly 30 burn, 20 regen per second. 100 seconds of burn without Invig., 150s with. Only able to use about 75% of GCDs after you run dry.

Ahh. 60 every 3 sounds much better to me

Ayvar (multi-quoting sucks from my phone) arr you sure? I thought ours had a 160 base potency to fracture's 100. Not posative.

[Ayvar]

Ayvar (multi-quoting sucks from my phone) arr you sure? I thought ours had a 160 base potency to fracture's 100. Not posative.

By "ours" do you mean Phlebotomize? If so I am quite sure, it's 170 initial potency with a 20 potency DoT over 18s

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Phlebotomize

[Narcariel]

Ahh. 60 every 3 sounds much better to me

Ayvar (multi-quoting sucks from my phone) arr you sure? I thought ours had a 160 base potency to fracture's 100. Not posative.

Phlebotomize has 170 base potency and Fracture has 100. However, he was referring to their DoT potency only, which are equal at 20/sec for 18sec (120 total).