Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

[Dervy]

T10 - BRD 590

Fo-real?

Pic/Vids?

[CesarLongsword]

T10 - BRD 590, has done more but never on a clear since we've only had 2 clears since his Zeta. BLM 580. Sub-6m clear.
T11 - DRG beats us both. BLM 565, BRD 555. Just above 6m clear.
T12 - 3 Bennu group, no one attacks Blackfires but SCH, low downtime vs uptime due to clearing immediately after first dodge phase (IE a group where the fight lasts until near the second dodge phase, most individual numbers will be higher) in a 7m clear - BRD 540, BLM 530ish on average, was far different in 4 Bennu groups.
T13 - BRD and BLM both have done 510 with room for more if add phase didn't die so quickly, more average is 500 for both. Sub-11m clear.

BLM numbers are actually lower as our group DPS goes up, either by letting SCH take over certain roles or hitting the milk phases harder so less for BLM. BRD is high because of fast clear times = less Paeon uptime and sometimes good end time, but that's what I judge by. NIN beats us every turn but T13. DRG usually right below BLM, not far off.



Our raid DPS is over 3600 in T10.

Can you please substantiate these numbers with a screenshot atleast? 590 is hella high imo and to just pull vague numbers out is useless unless you and others can back them up
Some of levis end game players have come to use this as a way of gauging eachother, none of that comes close to what you are saying

[Dervy]

400 * 1.017 = 406.8 DPS for the Paladin - And even less actually, as afaik there isn't a time where a Ninjitsu perfectly lines up with a TA. Therefore it's not really (1+0.1*10/60), but closer to (1+0.1*10/75). Let's use Lucrezia's parse for example. Overall raid DPS = 3004.03 DPS. http://a.pomf.se/wsakcx.png

3004.03 = 0.983 = 2952.96149. It's 51 overall raid DPS in this situation with TA, approximately.

And here's some videos of really good Dragoon runs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqrmKqLGavI (Multiply those numbers by 0.983)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8-4GspLO2Y (And Aikaal is a monstrous BLM btw)

I believe it's Dawiesm who has some really high 550-590+ DPS parses on T10 and T11 somewhere in this thread as well.

http://i.imgur.com/9NGv1yY.png <- Arthurs DPS

I'm not saying that the Bard and Black Mage are weak in comparison. Not at all. My BLM is a monster. Aikaal is proof of what BLMs can achieve in FCoB. However, what I posted is what Dragoons should be achieving in Turn 10-11. If your Dragoon isn't pulling numbers close to what I posted, then he/she's clearly doing something wrong.

If I could be bothered, I'd find more numbers.

Do you have any videos of your raids with your Dragoon, Sleigh? It would be interesting to analyse what he/she is doing and maybe give some tips. I guarantee if the strategies you use are Melee friendly, then there's definitely room for improvement.

[SunnyHirose]

As someone with an i130 DRG and a near-i130 MNK, solo MNK isn't very far ahead of solo DRG anymore (using 4-minute dummy tests as a head-to-head, <10dps difference when I adjusted DRG strength down). I'd place the blame on itemization. DRG's is nearly perfect, MNK has the "I need more skill speed... and less skill speed" problem still.

BLM being ahead of DRG doesn't surprise me (it happened to me until around when I got the spear drop, and as the raid got more geared he wasn't able to squeeze as much damage out of adds). BRD being ahead of DRG does, but then, I never quite understood how the hardest-hitting BRDs do it other than in fights where they have a clear uptime advantage.

[rickyguo]

Your dragoons definitely doing something wrong even if he's lbing. He should be doing more dps than both your blm/bard in every turn based on the numbers you posted.

[Sleigh]

Your dragoons definitely doing something wrong even if he's lbing. He should be doing more dps than both your blm/bard in every turn based on the numbers you posted.

By every turn you include T13?

You also have to consider the situation isn't going to be as good as most groups when it comes to add phases ... CT combo barely gets to breathe in T10, and T12 that end-time is gonna screw over everyone (put the BLM and BRD in a different clear time in T12 and they'll skyrocket). This is why I wanted to compare groups with similar clear times rather than just "hey I did 600 in my run that lasted 1m longer and I got to multi-DoT and AoE everything" type of run.

T11's about the purest comparison you can get between groups and even that can have a small amount of RNG and a vastly different end time.

[Sleigh]

If you could find out that DRG's numbers, and any amount of extra milking he may have gotten (IE he for some reason DFDs the Blackfires or doesn't have to LB ever or completely AoEs in T13 add phase instead of burning down the Twin clone because YOLO), that'd be quite helpful.

[rickyguo]

I mean one of the groups in my fc did a speed clear and their dragoon dps would be above your bard/blm in every turn I think. Except t13 maybe? I'm not sure. You usually get an increase in dps with faster clear times despite losing the ability to multidot more. Besides, you're not really multidoting anything besides t10 and you're not really aoeing except in t13.

I can actually do a speed run for similar clear times and see the numbers when they lift the lockout.

Like your dragoon should be doing like similar numbers to your ninja or monk adjusted for the -10? dps for the lb. Why is it that your ninja can do a lot more dps under the same conditions yet your dragoon cannot?

[rickyguo]

also why would you not doomspike the adds in t13

the twin clone dies so fast anyways that it doesn't matter if you have 8 players and you're hitting 5 targets with doomspike

it's like asking your blm to use their single target

[Sleigh]

Mainly because the sooner the Twin dies, the less MP WHM has to spend. We just have everyone burn it down and have BLM/SCH AoE to ensure as much MP (and Foe's MP since less Ballad) and CDs are saved for Bahamut. No reason to maximize the raid's DPS as a whole there since it's timed IMO, the most efficient thing you can do is come out of the add phase with as much available to you as possible.