Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

[Sleigh]

He isn't playing at an optimal level then.

Besides SMN and BRDs who don't do ridiculous damage, who should DRG beat T10, 12, and 13? While LBing of course.

[SunnyHirose]

Besides SMN and BRDs who don't do ridiculous damage, who should DRG beat T10, 12, and 13? While LBing of course.

The WHM ( -ヮ-);;

[Arthuro-Ray]

I dunno, am on the same situation as Dervy, but i can't say if our BLM and BRD are playing to their maximum potential though(our monk definetely isn't).

I guess it should be top 2 at least. How big is the gap between your MNk and DRG, on theses turns?

[Sleigh]

We use NIN + DRG T10-12, MNK + DRG T13. About 30 difference in every turn while doing all LB duties, assuming equal RNG.

- As BLM I'll be damned if I get beaten by DRG (dependent on RNG of course) T10, 12, or 13, the situation's too good for BLM compared to DRG. Too much Flaring to be had. T11 my best is about 565 so yeah I'm never gonna touch DRG there.
- BRD, you'd think would lose to DRG but my group's BRD has almost done 610 on T10 (we purposefully wipe with deaths and that's what he was at this week, at 1% before we ran into a wall) so that's the kind of numbers DRG's competing against. Again though, not on T11.
- NIN/MNK, if they're not LBing, and with their higher base damage, they should never lose to DRG unless the RNG situation's too bad IE Wild Charges or deaths or Earthshakers etc, or you manage to give DRG AoE.
- SMN, DRG should beat in all but T13 and T12 in slower groups ... RIP SMN

[Szhinji]

Hi guys!

Decided to pop here and ask a question from all of you handsome and gorgeous fellows. I have been playing DRG for a while now and main it in my static, and recently I decided to go next step with my dragoon trying to increase my DPS beyond what I am currently able to do.

Now while the normal rotation for DRGs is same always, the openers are quite different, especially the one that I found out recently (month of so back) in the Hwo to train your dragoon document. And that being quite enforced and widely accepted rotation I should of course change mine to match that one, but I ran into a wall with it. Mainly because the part where PS and BFB are used together between a single GCD. I have been trying left and right but it seems I can't time the skill fit in between without having them to clip into my next GCD, which in return seems to lower my burst a bit compared to my "old" rotation that I got from here when I first started playing long time ago. I do have about 127 - 150 ping depending time of the day (sometimes it might shoot up even higher but that's like really rare lag spike).

So any suggestions should I just follow the rotation in "How to train your Dragoon" and learn to be better with oGCDs, move the PS or BFB one step forward thus moving all the oGCDs one step forward in the rotation or do you think that my old rotation is still valid and doesn't cause any huge problems with cooldown usage?

"How to train your Dragoon" -rotation that I can't fully do wihtout clipping into the GCD while trying to active two oGCDs

HT -(Internal Release)-> ID -(Leg Sweep)-> Dis -(Power Surge + Blood for Blood)-> CT -(Jump)-> Phleb -(Dragonfire Dive)-> TT -(Spineshatter Dive)-> VT -(Life Surge)-> FT —> HT —> (continue rotation)

And here's the old rotation that I am using, (I do switch BFB and IR around time to time, usually I'd like to use it as second oGCD and start with BFB so I can more easily align it with PS for those jumps)

HT (Internal Release)->ID (Blood for Blood)->Dis (Power Surge)->CT (Jump)->Pleb (LegSweep)->TT (DFD)->VT (LS)->FT-(SSD)->HT -> (continue rotation)

Also am curious of how to use PPP and X-potion of strength most effectively in the rotation. X-potion I usually would use after BFB but before CT and then push all the other GCDs one slot forward (after attempting it few times I don't seem to be able to do it completely withing the GCD). PPP I'd normally use either before I start my rotation or after my opener when I have first open slot between two GCDs.

DPS-wise I don't have any numbers on me currently but with what I normally do I am the highest DPS in the group when we do FCoB (composition - NIN, DRG(me), BRD and BLM), we are average I'd say not the best around but we do quite fine have T10-T12 on farm and started progressing on T13 last week.

So if any of you generous, handsome and gorgeous fellows would be kind enough to give me some pointers where I should be moving towards I'd be one happy DRG! Gearwise I am going towards the non-crafted BiS and here's Ariyala of my current stuff http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/Q3T4. Shouldn't matter much but decided to pop this down here as well!

[Dervy]

I do have about 127 - 150 ping depending time of the day (sometimes it might shoot up even higher but that's like really rare lag spike).

So any suggestions should I just follow the rotation in "How to train your Dragoon" and learn to be better with oGCDs, move the PS or BFB one step forward thus moving all the oGCDs one step forward in the rotation or do you think that my old rotation is still valid and doesn't cause any huge problems with cooldown usage?

I personally don't like How To Train Your Dragoons oGDC rotation as it's heavily latency influenced. EU players cannot afford to continuously double-pop oGDCs continuously in the opener, especially has BFB has a longer skill/ability/animation lock.


Also, download WTFast if you're a PC user. No reason why you should not be using it. It's a free download and has an unlimited free trial. I play with 96-104ms constantly. Make sure you're connecting to MTL2 sever, as that has the lowest ping + lag spikes I've noticed.

Now. Can you get 9GDCs in a Blood For Blood? If yes, you should be using a delayed BFB before CT (to ensure you can hit 9GDCs). My video here should aid you somewhat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfjU6hJC_II. If this is the case, then your opening rotation, as an EU player should be something like:

HT - (IR + PS) - ID - (X-POT) - DI - (Delayed BFB) - CT - (JUMP) - PH - (LegS) - TT - (SSD) - VP - (LS) - FT (DFD).

This is also my opener and it allows for minimal GDC clipping, whilst still allowing to maximise your opening as much as possible.

If you cannot get 9GDCs in a Blood for Blood, then you need to use it before Impulse Drive, so it would be something like:

HT - (BFB) - ID - (X-POT) - DI - (IR + PS) - CT - (JUMP) - PH - (LegS) - TT - (SSD) - VP - (LS) - FT (DFD) = Or switch the X-POT around with the IR + PS.

IR + PS both have very low animation locks (or w/e the terminology is), so you can easily double stack these two, even with a high latency.

[Szhinji]

HT - (IR + PS) - ID - (X-POT) - DI - (Delayed BFB) - CT - (JUMP) - PH - (LegS) - TT - (SSD) - VP - (LS) - FT (DFD).

If you cannot get 9GDCs in a Blood for Blood, then you need to use it before Impulse Drive, so it would be something like:

HT - (BFB) - ID - (X-POT) - DI - (IR + PS) - CT - (JUMP) - PH - (LegS) - TT - (SSD) - VP - (LS) - FT (DFD) = Or switch the X-POT around with the IR + PS.

Thank you! I'll put these two in test and see if I can pull off the 9 GCDs during the BFB! IR and PS are definitely something I can pull off together without it clipping to the next GCD. Once I get my muscle memory to work with one of these it's time to start pushing to new levels!

I used to have a paid subscriptions of WTFast while back, stopped using it as I didn't see a huge improvement and couldn't justify paying for it, but I am going to pick it up and test out now that it's free trial without cutting off every 20 minutes.

[TimelessShine]

Hi just giving some pointers out for opening rotation to help out that burst opening.

Power surge, HT,IR,ID,B4B,DIS,JUMP,CT,Leg sweep,phil,Dragon fire dive, TT, spine jump,VT, LS, FT, HT.

You don't want to hold your dragon fire dive towards the end of your combo due to cool the cool down timer. The person who is using dragon fire dive first is usually the one who gets one extra dragon jump in before a phase change. You want that move on CD at all times.

[Thendiel]

I personally don't like How To Train Your Dragoons oGDC rotation as it's heavily latency influenced. EU players cannot afford to continuously double-pop oGDCs continuously in the opener, especially has BFB has a longer skill/ability/animation lock.


Also, download WTFast if you're a PC user. No reason why you should not be using it. It's a free download and has an unlimited free trial. I play with 96-104ms constantly. Make sure you're connecting to MTL2 sever, as that has the lowest ping + lag spikes I've noticed.

Now. Can you get 9GDCs in a Blood For Blood? If yes, you should be using a delayed BFB before CT (to ensure you can hit 9GDCs). My video here should aid you somewhat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfjU6hJC_II. If this is the case, then your opening rotation, as an EU player should be something like:

HT - (IR + PS) - ID - (X-POT) - DI - (Delayed BFB) - CT - (JUMP) - PH - (LegS) - TT - (SSD) - VP - (LS) - FT (DFD).

This is also my opener and it allows for minimal GDC clipping, whilst still allowing to maximise your opening as much as possible.

If you cannot get 9GDCs in a Blood for Blood, then you need to use it before Impulse Drive, so it would be something like:

HT - (BFB) - ID - (X-POT) - DI - (IR + PS) - CT - (JUMP) - PH - (LegS) - TT - (SSD) - VP - (LS) - FT (DFD) = Or switch the X-POT around with the IR + PS.

IR + PS both have very low animation locks (or w/e the terminology is), so you can easily double stack these two, even with a high latency.

First off, my apologies to the community's EU players and high-latency players. I hadn't realized that connection speed would have such an extreme impact on doubling up off-GCDs.

Second, my own personal experience is that I have no difficulty fitting Power Surge next to Blood for Blood between GCDs, even at fairly extreme levels of Skill Speed. I'm at about 40ms and play in NA. If that's something that people are having difficulty with, then... yeah... my opener becomes problematic, I admit.

That said, I'm pretty convinced that it's ideal if you can manage to pull it off. The main advantage that I believe it has over Dervy's is that it buffs DFD with Internal Release along with everything else (BFB, potion, HT, Dis), whereas Dervy's approach buffs Leg Sweep rather than DFD with IR. Some cursory math of mine, assuming a latent crit rate of 25%, suggests that my opener provides a +12 potency bonus averaging out across runs by comparison. Even if I were to use an opener closer to Dervy's (meaning the first one he lists here), it seems to me that it would be better to swap DFD with Leg Sweep for that reason. But my opener also packs Leg Sweep earlier into the opener while still getting a second BFB-buffed Leg Sweep at about the same time that Dervy's method would. I believe this is another advantage.

There might well be something I'm missing, though... some long-term advantage derived from Dervy's approach, perhaps? I'm not very adept at models, either, so I don't know how to use them to test the approaches against each other, what with the doubling up on off-GCDs.

In any event, it seems like we're dealing with very small differences.

For the record, I definitely love Dervy's opener for people who can't hit 9 BFB-buffed GCDs. I'll have to update HTTYD to include it, since Skill Speed (like latency) has a big impact on what the optimum opener will be.

[Dervy]

And this is why I don't believe in the 0.5s rule for oCDs. If they all had a 0.5s animation lock/delay, why is it I can do PS + IR with no GDC clipping even with higher latency, but struggle to do so with PS + BFB? Skills clearly have their own animation lock/delay.

There isn't really a "Long-term advantage" either (at least, not that I've noticed). Having said that, if I'm not using an X-Pot, I usually put a Legsweep in its place so I can get 1 unbuffed and 1 buffed LS before my BFB runs out.

Ages ago, I used to do my opener so IR would be used before DI, thus allowing your DFD to be buffed by Internal Release as well, but it's kind of hard to fit it all into a perfect sequence without clipping, especially as I'm doing 9GDC BFBs. I'm always tweaking and messing around with my opener. Who knows? It might change again next week! Haha