Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

[HulveinBlitz]

another week without loot rip

I got the T11 head, haha.

[Decrith]

I wish Ayvar would update the Stat Weights in Page 1, I had to scroll through 30 pages to check what it was. (It's in page 427 btw)

[Butcherboy]

Yeah I'd like to know the BiS for melded gear.

[Dervy]

Yeah I'd like to know the BiS for melded gear.

Descending from highest weight to lowest. These are the ones I'd recommend, but pick depending on your budget as they're extremely expensive.

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/OX4B - If you want to spend 50m, sure!
WD: 58
STR: 637
CRT: 553
DTR: 414
SS: 442
Food: Flint Caviar HQ
Weight: 1042.960

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/P4I3 - Crafted Belt + Helm. Very cost efficient. Better than the one below weight wise.
WD: 58
STR: 651
CRT: 547
DET: 408
SS: 377
Food: Black Truffle HQ
Weight: 1040.730

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/P4HU - Crafted Belt. Most cost efficient by miles. What I'm going for because I'm broke
WD: 58
STR: 658
CRT: 522
DET: 411
SS: 359
Food: Black Truffles HQ
Weight: 1039.322

[Butcherboy]

Ok dervy I like te top choice. So looking at the list , obviously the highlight piece are the once to b use, but looking at the boots I thought the only viable piece that's crafted to be use is the waist. If you don't mind can u list the stat weight for melded vs iron works. Only ask for iron work since I'm not in any raid grp atm. I did the stat weight for ilvl 130 gloves iron vs melded, and I thought the iron works is best.

[Dervy]

Don't even need to do the math. The ironworks boots have a higher weight. However. Just because one item has a higher weight over another, it does not necessarily make it the better item in set. Crafted Pieces give more room to use other gear pieces. The reason why the Crafted BiS set uses the boots is all because of the amount of SkillSpeed you can stack using both the Boots and Gloves combined in a set together. There's no point to using either the Boots or the Gloves by themselves.

442 - 359 = 83 * 0.198 = 16.434

You'd need around 50 more DET to make up for the 83 skillspeed gained. 50*0.327 = 16.35. Or, 17 strength.

Pretty strong if you ask me, especially if you have a Ninja in your group who can give you Goad. You'll be doing some serious work over a long period of time.

[Butcherboy]

Ok so basically I need to meld gloves and boots got it. Yeah cause right now the only piece I have that's crafted is my head and gloves but no Materia

[Dervy]

You're looking at it from a Skill vs Skill perspective, assuming LS falls on CT constantly every 50s. The falling of CT rotates between CT and FT, therefore you'd need to calculate the average PPS of both of the skills combined.

So really, 180/62.5 = 2.88

180 + 125 = 305/2 = 152.5 /50 = 3.05

You have to remember that the PPS for one of the Full Thrusts would be 180/50 = 3.6 when alternating betwen FT and CT.

[HaelseMikiro]

You're looking at it from a Skill vs Skill perspective, assuming LS falls on CT constantly every 50s. The falling of CT rotates between CT and FT, therefore you'd need to calculate the average PPS of both of the skills combined.

So really, 180/62.5 = 2.88

180 + 125 = 305/2 = 152.5 /50 = 3.05

You have to remember that the PPS for one of the Full Thrusts would be 180/50 = 3.6 when alternating betwen FT and CT.

Yeah, I've got all that just fine. But your 3.05 is on the assumptions that LS is always used immediately as it comes off cooldown, and that it always comes off cooldown immediately prior to CT or FT. This is likely not the reality for every skill speed value between 341 and 390, if any.

And my 2.88 assumes you will always wait 5 GCDs (with 341 SkS) after LS is off cooldown, before you use it for FT, also not always the case, and having any skill speed at all on your character will actually raise the pps >2.88. (Not a huge amount though, 2.46 GCD brings it to ~2.89, while waiting only 4 GCDs would make it 3.0)
The true numbers for both methods lie in between 2.88 and 3.05, and that's what I'm wanting to find. I'm planning on running some tests using both methods and just focusing on how many times LS is used, and how many GCDs I have to hold it for FT on average.

Edit: Not sure if it's good for the theory crafting or not, but I'm considering ignoring the first Life Surge use on each test, since a 50 second cooldown isn't required before using it. So tests where I alternate CT/FT I will still make sure to have an equal number of LS used for each

[Dervy]

Makes no difference in PPS if you count it from the first FT, or first CT, providing you're not using any other buffs excluding LS. PPS is an average anyway.

Here's my argument about the timings of LS and how it can be possible to fit in between every SS value up until we reach our breakpoint (which is theoretically higher than 390).

It's not even an assumption that we're able to use LS like how I've suggested it. There's room for it to be used all the way up until 404 Skillspeed with absolutely no latency and clipping issues and LS is used directly in between two skills.


Let's assume that this always won't be the case and there's a +- 0.05 variation on our timing of LS, that's still a maximum upper limit of 400 SS for the most extreme possibility. At 400 SS, we have a GDC of 2.444. The first LS is used in between VP and FT, which are 6 & 7 GDC's off from when we first start the rotation.

(6*2.444)+(7*2.444)/2 = 15.886 +- 0.05. That's our approximation of when we use Life Surge.

15.886+50 = 65.886s +- 0.05 is the total time of the rotation when LS will be next up.

CT is 27 GDCs into the rotation. 27*2.444 = 65.988 - 65.886 = 0.102 +- 0.05.

So even at 400 SS, taking into consideration there's no GDC clipping, LS will be up 0.102s +- 0.05s before our usage of CT. Of course, this is the most extreme case. Let's use the Non-Crafted BiS sets Skillspeed (410 det set), 378 SS.

378 ss = 2.465 GDCs.

(6*2.465)+(7*2.465)/2 =
14.791+17.255=16.023 +- 0.05 + 50 = 66.023
27*2.465 = 66.555 - 66.023 = 0.532 +- 0.05s before CT is up.

The timing is tight, but it works. Providing there's no clipping, latency issues or breaks in the rotation due to fight mechanics (Shiva EX is a perfect example where this rotation isn't as good), LS will be up prior to the usage of LS/CT, always, up until the break point.