Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

[Dervy]

Daweism, that post is kinda irrelevant to what he was asking.

And no Arson_King. Get accuracy and remove SkillSpeed is essentially what we're all doing now - unless you're going for absolutely maximum crafted BiS where SkillSpeed is relevant. At least with 18 accuracy on your Novus, you can replace one of the other accuracy heavy accessories and replace it for a pure DPS variant, such as the Dreadwyrm Earrings of Slaying.

Do you guys think it's worth it to give up 57 CRIT and 29 Skill Speed for 52 DET? Weights say crit+skillspeed is better, but they involve someRng. Helps every hit. What do?

What items are we talking about here? Personally, I'd do the swap, but 52 DET? How are you losing 52 DET? That's a pretty big loss.

[Noxotic]

Theory crafting, ariyalas calculator BiS with and without food. Without food shows no skill speed, but add black truffle risotto and you get 52 Determination over the BiS option with food, but that option loses that DET in favor of 57 CRIT + Skill Speed.

Option #1: With Food Calculated
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/OYPZ

Option #2: Without Food Calculated, then adding BTR for DET
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/OYQ3

[Dervy]

Theory crafting, ariyalas calculator BiS with and without food. Without food shows no skill speed, but add black truffle risotto and you get 52 Determination over the BiS option with food, but that option loses that DET in favor of 57 CRIT + Skill Speed.

Option #1: With Food Calculated
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/OYPZ

Option #2: Without Food Calculated, then adding BTR for DET
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/OYQ3

Oh, you're talking about the BiS sets I calculated 2 weeks ago.

There's like a 1-2 DPS difference between the two. Pick whichever you prefer.

I just noticed that you calcuated BiS using out of date weights. Here's the two BiS sets you should be working with (doesn't include crafted gear):

BiS ilvl135 @ 535 Accuracy/T13 - Highest DPS on paper
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/OTNT

BiS ilvl135 @ 535 Accuracy/T13 - 410 Determination
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/OTNX

Top one is highest, theoretical DPS. Second just has 410 Determination and is only 1-2 DPS behind, on paper.

Ok! great.. are you still using OP rotation? and something I am getting stuck on is AOE Rotation! last Question of the Day lol ( I get three a day!)

Yes, H IDC P TTT.

But, cooldown management is different.

Use IR + PS + Jump together. Though, as jump is on a 30s cooldown, so you can use it once more before you buff it up again with PS + IR. Essentially, Jump 1 buffed, Jump 2 unbuffed, Jump 3 buffed, jump 4 unbuffed etc.

Use Blood For Blood whenever it pops up, same for Leg Sweep.

Dragonfire Dive + Spineshatter are used however you want to.

If your skillspeed is below 390, rotate the use of Life Surge between Full Thrust and Chaos Thrust, as it's 50s Cooldown. If it's above this number, only use Life Surge on Full Thrust. Though, if you've had A LOT of practice, then you can use Life Surge with CT + FT at much higher SkillSpeed (I do it with 441 SS)

[rickyguo]

Oh, you're talking about the BiS sets I calculated 2 weeks ago.

There's like a 1-2 DPS difference between the two. Pick whichever you prefer.

I just noticed that you calcuated BiS using out of date weights. Here's the two BiS sets you should be working with (doesn't include crafted gear):

BiS ilvl135 @ 535 Accuracy/T13 - Highest DPS on paper
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/OTVH

BiS ilvl135 @ 535 Accuracy/T13 - 410 Determination
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/OTNX

i'm too lazy to test it but do dots and disembowel fall off if we use the set with +0 skillspeed?

[HaelseMikiro]

If your skillspeed is below 390, rotate the use of Life Surge between Full Thrust and Chaos Thrust, as it's 50s Cooldown. If it's above this number, only use Life Surge on Full Thrust. Though, if you've had A LOT of practice, then you can use Life Surge with CT + FT at much higher SkillSpeed (I do it with 441 SS)

I did some math after reading this and was hoping someone could clear this up for me.
Life Surge has a 50 second cooldown so.....
CT = 250 potency (+125 for a LS Crit) => LS is worth 2.5 pps
FT = 360 potency (+180 for a LS Crit) => LS is worth 3.6 pps

So to be really worth using on CT, we'd have to be saving enough time to make LS worth more pps than using it on FT. Assuming a 2.5 GCD (as low as you could expect) and let's say you want to save LS for FT, but after using CT you need to refresh HT and Ph before starting your TTT (this situation would be most favorable to using LS on CT) so you'll be delaying LS by 5 GCD's (12.5s).
So that means Life Surge was used on a 62.5s cooldown and...
FT = 360 potency (+180 for a LS Crit) => LS is worth 2.88 pps.
You would need to sit on LS for >22 seconds to lower the pps to make it less useful of FT than CT.

Maybe I'm number-crunching something wrong, but it looks to me that saving LS for FT will always be worth it in anything resembling a normal rotation. I think alternating LS on Ct + FS might make the rotation feel more fluid, but it looks like a dps loss on paper.

Edit: Just to keep things easier to reference I went back 30 pages and pulled this up

125 + 180 = 305/2 = 152.5 /50s = 3.05PPS

I completely see where this math is coming from, and to put mine similarly I'd probably use
(180 + 180)/125s = 2.88PPS, and this is assuming best case scenario for Dervy's math and worst case for mine.
I'm going to set my GCD to 2.5 and run some tests, and also do some extended paper math to try to get some more realistic numbers

Edit#2: I see Dervy responded while I was typing out my first edit

[Arson_king]

Ok! great.. are you still using OP rotation? and something I am getting stuck on is AOE Rotation! last Question of the Day lol ( I get three a day!)

[Aiurily]

first set has 493 acc

[Dervy]

Fucks sake .-.

Edited. I really should get myself a list of all the sets compiled somewhere... I never bother keep them compiled as I just use my solver if I need to know what the BiS set is.

@ Ricky. Phlebotomize should fall off for a second before re-application at such low skillspeed. Disembowl and Chaos Thrust shouldn't, unless you've delayed your GDCs by overlapping oGDCs, or due to AOE mechanics.

[rickyguo]

Fucks sake .-.

Edited. I really should get myself a list of all the sets compiled somewhere... I never bother keep them compiled as I just use my solver if I need to know what the BiS set is.

@ Ricky. Phlebotomize should fall off for a second before re-application at such low skillspeed. Disembowl and Chaos Thrust shouldn't, unless you've delayed your GDCs by overlapping oGDCs, or due to AOE mechanics.

how are you doing it with 44x skillspeed without losing out on gcd

I have to wait like .x seconds for the first CT with life surge and then I'm 1-2 seconds off on the second full thrust with life surge

this is also assuming no selene buff

how is practice supposed to affect gcd timing