Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

[Sleigh]

DRGs just need positional potency bonus on TT - VT - FT and an increase in jump potency to make it competitive (might as well overthrow MNK dps)

Unless the developers give DRG some form of non-DPS raid buff, like Disembowel reducing STR/INT, basically the only way to balance it is to make the total DPS DRG + BRD noticeably above MNK's solo contribution, and somewhere along the contribution of what MNK buffed by MNK brings. So in essence, DRG's total contribution from existing has to bring the equivalent of 530+ in 2.38 BiS, or else it will be worse than MNK in any fight MNK isn't consistently dropping GL3.

DRG's contribution has to smash one MNK's contribution in the ground, basically. It's the only way to justify bringing DRG + MNK over MNK + MNK (in most fights, there are some fights in the game presently where DRG can stand up to MNK but they're largely outdated fights), or else they'd have to change how Dragon Kick works. Luckily, if say DRG = 530 DPS because of BRD, it'd discourage DRG stacking due to Disembowel's nature, and you would be able to have any combo of MNK + DRG + NIN in any order without a large loss.

[Vodomir]

DRGs just need positional potency bonus on TT - VT - FT and an increase in jump potency to make it competitive (might as well overthrow MNK dps)

If anything then make DPS buff non-positional, we already have enough of a hassle with positionals.

[SolarMisae]

There was an argument in my FC tonight over NIN vs DRG and we had someone insisting that 10% buff to a very strong bard at all times beats out the 10% buff every minute and the utility of goad. I don't have any numbers to back up a claim one way or another, so I'm curious as to what y'all who have done testing think.

[Vodomir]

There was an argument in my FC tonight over NIN vs DRG and we had someone insisting that 10% buff to a very strong bard at all times beats out the 10% buff every minute and the utility of goad. I don't have any numbers to back up a claim one way or another, so I'm curious as to what y'all who have done testing think.

I'm just afraid that whatever miniscule advantage the Disembowel Debuff to a strong bard might have over the Ninja's 10% group DPS buff for 10 out of 60 seconds (if there is any advantage at all, just going of your assumptions here), it won't be enough to catch up the obvious DPS difference between the NIN and the DRG himself.

[Ricdeau]

There was an argument in my FC tonight over NIN vs DRG and we had someone insisting that 10% buff to a very strong bard at all times beats out the 10% buff every minute and the utility of goad. I don't have any numbers to back up a claim one way or another, so I'm curious as to what y'all who have done testing think.

Keep in mind that Disembowel does not effect all of bard's damage dealing abilities so it's not a straight 10% buff for them while the 10% damage increase for 10 seconds from ninja is for all attacks that are initiated during that 10 seconds. So whatever DOTs are refreshed during that 10 seconds will carry the 10% buff for it's duration something that Disembowel, Dragon Kick, and Dancing Edge/Storm's Eye don't do.

[SeraviEdalborez]

I honestly advise any DRG to just play MNK as well. If you're dedicated enough, play NIN and maybe BRD too. If this was a game where you couldn't change your job and DRGs were just statistically inferior, you'd have a problem. Right now you don't (well, you do but it's not un-fixable). Unless you bought a piece of DRG left side already, your accessories all transfer to MNK and i110 leftside is easily farmable now.

Our dedicated melee guy in our coil group swaps between DRG and MNK depending on his mood, and often goes DRG for learning and MNK for when he's got it learned.

[HulveinBlitz]

I think if this topic: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...30#post2565230 Keeps going, maybe they'll give some form of response, but I doubt they read here. But yeah, Hak, Yan, Sleigh etc, all make valid points.

[beowulf81]

i'm doing the same: the issue is, the other melee in our group is a monk/ninja as well. there's a weekly lockout on coil gear, meaning only one drop between the both of us, and a weekly restriction on poetics gear; meaning i will not be able to gear up dragoon if i choose to gear up ninja for final coil. I'm probably going to circumvent this by having nin on an alt.

after 2.5 the above likely won't be an issue, but if Yoshi and co. are content to let Dragoon remain a gimp job for endgame progression, i would think more and more players would just abandon the job and simply just play nin/mnk full time.

I find the idea that the dev team are aware of how gimped Dragoons are and are content to allow them to remain this way maddening. What is the point in having a job that is simply just not viable for endgame progression?

[Orlandeu]

Redundant.

[rickyguo]

What is the point in having a job that is simply just not viable for endgame progression?

honestly, it's viable for endgame progression but like.. just not as good. I will end up killing t13 on drg since I won't have time to level/gear another class until it's down and killed t10-t12 with drg fine. The problems are that during progression, a lot of mechanics force me to skip positionals since I don't know the timing on skills. I take a lot more damage from magic aoes like megaflare, tetraflare, twisters etc. We really miss the dragonkick debuff which is actually a big deal when you're undergeared and mantras nice too. Likewise, the 10% damage increase is better for adds than "drg burst", goad is nice and ninjas don't really require positionals or take more damage from aoe.

Unless you're hoping to kill t13 this week, I think that by the time you get to it, there really won't be that much of a difference between DRG and other classes that you could if you want, play the class you want.