Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

[Ayvar]

and i have another issue, im playing on the ps3 with a gamepad, and even with this fully macro'd i'm having issues getting everything to flow, and i generally have HT fall off before my first FT. the math is correct, but something in the execution, even when fully macro'd and taking the human aspect out, i have issues.

You could switch to a different rotation that would be more forgiving with buff timing. There's a small section in my second post (after the rotation discussion) about removing Fracture, which would be one less skill you need to deal with. That rotation will also give you a little more time to hit your HT buff on Full Thrusts. Here it is:

ID-Dis-CT-HT-TT-VT-FT-Ph-TT-VT-FT-HT-ID-Dis-CT-Ph-TT-VT-FT-HT-TT-VT-FT-Ph

This should be easier to execute on a PS3.

So it's hard to find the discussion in this thread. Is Jump actually useful for DPS at any point using it between skills?

It starts on page 12 and the numbers are on 13. Short answer is yes it is a dps increase.

[xyaie]

if youre fighting a boss where stuns landing is important, the dps increase of leg sweep is not worth the higher chance of wiping. its selfish to increase your DPS at the cost of a raid-mate's life

also macros generally round time up, so as opposed to having a 2.4s GCD you have a ~3s when using macros (from what another thread said). taking off all my gear and doing TTT normally ended up substantially higher than TTT macroed. (about 12% higher in both DPS and hits)

[ColdestHeaven]

About using off-GCD abilities during combos, do you think you'll add in the future a small (or not-so-small if it comes to that) paragraph about which ones are the best in terms of animation/delay? Some of the posts here seem to suggest some of them (Chaos thrust, Full thrust and Phlebotomize), but I didn't really get the chance yet to try if there are others - or even if there are some off-GCD that are more "sneakable" in-or-right-after combos.

[IXZERO]

Try using your off GCD after Chaostrust and after Full thrust right before the last tick off Heavy Thrust to sneak in some extra damage but too the poster before you, pls don't use your stun on for example Ifrit too sneak some damage, if you do you will increase the stun resistance.

[EasymodeX]

Chaos Thrust and Phlebotomize seem to be far and away the best attacks after which to use a "big" OGCD (Jumps). It's somewhat variable, but I've seen Jump clip like half the CT or PH animation. Like they only animate for a half second. They both result in very little "cost" for using the Jump (although it's still there). It's pretty extreme. Sometimes I even get worried that the damage of those 2 attacks didn't even land (but they do, you can see the big "+PHLEBOTOMIZE" debuff floating text) because so much is clipped.

Full Thrust is an ok backup -- better than most animations, but once you try out PH or CT for your jump, you'll want to use it on those every time.


In terms of macros, no sequence of multiple attacks are effectively macroable for Dragoons. First off, DRGs have no exclusive condition attacks (like Monks do for example). The only way to macro attacks is via the /wait command which is terrible for combat. Just say no. Don't.

However, what does work for macros are a few of the OGCDs.

I have 1 macro:

/macroicon "Full Thrust"
/ac "Full Thrust"
/ac "Life Surge" <me>

When I use Full Thrust, I mash the button so it uses LS during the OGCD before FT, then FT on the GCD.

Note one critical limitation of macro'd attacks: it breaks the ability queuing. Normally, when you press an attack 0.5 seconds before the GCD, the game will queue it up and execute it right on the GCD.

Macros don't seem to work this way. If you press the macro 0.5 seconds before the GCD is available, the game does not seem to queue the attack. As a result, a macro that actually works for attacks (e.g. a Monk), will have a slight delay/stutter before executing every attack. In other words you'll tend to lose 0.1-0.2 seconds on every GCD using an attack macro. This is a lot, for every attack.

This is all my casual observation though, so don't take it as 100%. However, I don't like using on-GCD attacks in macros in general because of it.

Anyways, this can even happen for a "1 attack" macro like the FT one I listed above. If you press the button lazily, the FT may go off 0.1-0.3 seconds after the GCD is available. This is obviously bad. Optimally, I'd have the LS on a separate button entirely. However, I personally can't afford the hotbar/keybind space or attention (although maybe I will in a few weeks), so YMMV. I'm posting it as an option, with tepid recommendation. My bandaid is to mash the button hard to try and minimize the time loss. I'll probably separate the macro at some later date.

My second macro, however, is more useful:

/macroicon "Blood for Blood"
/ac "Blood for Blood" <me>
/ac "Internal Release" <me>
/ac "Power Surge" <me>


I'll probably add /ac "Mercy Stroke" when I get it (sidenote: I might add it above PS).

All the problems with delay after a GCD I mentioned above? Does not apply to most OGCDs because they have a "lot" of slack time between GCD animations. The only thing to note is that Power Surge has a short time limit, so only bust out all 3 when you're ready to use jump very soon.

Personally, I have this macro for all my buff execution. I actually have a separate hotbar that has all 3 buffs individually (but the bar has no hotkeys assigned) solely so I can see their timers. This allows me to slow down and save my Power Surge if I need to wait for Jump to cool down.

Note: once in awhile, Internal Release will fire before BFB. GG macro coding. This is another reason NOT to use an attack macro for Monks.

In terms of pressing the button and result attacks, my general opener ends up looking like:

H - bfb -
I - ir - D - ps - C - jump -
P - sweep

Note: in this perfect situation, it would be slightly more optimal for IR to be first. However, in many situations, I am too busy finding the back to start my buffs, with the following result:

H - none
I - bfb - D - ir - C - ps -
P - jump

Note: I still get a PS'd jump on a good animation (PH), which is nice.


Actually based on this re-assessment, I may switch around IR and BFB in my macro. IR is weaker so I want to use it first before my other buffs are necessarily up (DE). I want to save BFB to sync with stronger attacks (post-DE).

if youre fighting a boss where stuns landing is important, the dps increase of leg sweep is not worth the higher chance of wiping. its selfish to increase your DPS at the cost of a raid-mate's life

Which is super annoying because Leg Sweep is a straight ~5% increase in DPS or so. Le sigh.

[Zenmaku]

Chaos Thrust and Phlebotomize seem to be far and away the best attacks after which to use a "big" OGCD (Jumps). It's somewhat variable, but I've seen Jump clip like half the CT or PH animation. Like they only animate for a half second. They both result in very little "cost" for using the Jump (although it's still there). It's pretty extreme. Sometimes I even get worried that the damage of those 2 attacks didn't even land (but they do, you can see the big "+PHLEBOTOMIZE" debuff floating text) because so much is clipped.

I can confirm this. The difference between using Jump just after CT or Ph is substantial. Doing a full parsed run of AK with my rotation being exactly the same except for Jump Placement I've noticed a 10-15 increase in DPS for a 3-mob encounter (reset each encounter and did the same thing on run #2) by using Jump only after CT / PH as opposed to using it after FT. % wise for me equates to 4-5% approx. for the encounter.

[spear101]

so how does accuracy weigh out compared to other stats?

most of the AK gear has accuracy on it so im just trying to figure out if its worth using over artifact gear

[xyaie]

so how does accuracy weigh out compared to other stats?

most of the AK gear has accuracy on it so im just trying to figure out if its worth using over artifact gear

I dont think anyone has the accuracy formula ironed out yet. with that it would be simple getting a rough stat weight. regardless, AK gear will overcap you for everything but coil, points after cap are worthless.

[EasymodeX]

If you don't have enough ACC, get more ACC, the end. Supposedly misses still happen in Coil at 460 ACC or something. No one knows more specifics as far as I know.

Updated DRG stat weights (approximate):
STR 1
WD 7.536
DET 0.219
CRT 0.162
SS 0.146

So, I'm actually surprised crit is that low compared to SS, with DET showing strong. Note these are based on a baseline DET of 250 and CRT of 445. Also, Internal Release is not factored, which would slightly reduce the value of CRT. Interesting.

[Ayvar]

Updated DRG stat weights (approximate):

WD 7.536
STR 1
DET 0.219
CRT 0.162
SS 0.146

So, I'm actually surprised crit is that low compared to SS, with DET showing strong. Note these are based on a baseline DET of 250 and CRT of 445. Also, Internal Release is not factored, which would slightly reduce the value of CRT. Interesting.

What caused the need for updated numbers? They're very close to those originally posted by xyaie, but definitely some differences.

For reference here are his again:

Weapon Damage: 10.541
Strength: 1
Crit: .222
Determination: .193
Skill Speed: .191

so how does accuracy weigh out compared to other stats?

most of the AK gear has accuracy on it so im just trying to figure out if its worth using over artifact gear

Here's my post on the subject from a couple pages ago:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1316963

I rechecked and my accuracy is actually 471, so I'll pay attention in coil tonight and see if I'm still missing hits or if that has been rectified. I was definitely missing a good percentage of my hits when I was around 430-450.