Is there even a point to raising level caps?

[PikachuLink]

you are right leveling shouldnt be a chore. but many people do wanna level again at somepoint on that job.

[gifthorse]

you are right leveling shouldnt be a chore. but many people do wanna level again at somepoint on that job.

I'm pretty sure - and you can quote me wildly on this - that most people want to play a game and have fun. They want to do quests, forge friendships, adventure, create things, explore. But the one thing that they don't want to do is level just for the sake of levelling.

If there is one thing the MMO genre has taught us, it's that the MMO audience, by and large, dislikes to grind. If they want to better themselves, they want to do so testing themselves in combat against increasingly more powerful foes, or see new thigns, or do new things. They don't just want to stand around doing the same thing, and watching their numbers get bigger.

[Physic]

I'm pretty sure - and you can quote me wildly on this - that most people want to play a game and have fun. They want to do quests, forge friendships, adventure, create things, explore. But the one thing that they don't want to do is level just for the sake of levelling.

If there is one thing the MMO genre has taught us, it's that the MMO audience, by and large, dislikes to grind. If they want to better themselves, they want to do so testing themselves in combat against increasingly more powerful foes, or see new thigns, or do new things. They don't just want to stand around doing the same thing, and watching their numbers get bigger.

While i agree that leveling isnt the only progression, having continous content at level 50 will still create the disparity between level 50 players, they have to make content for level 50+++++++ players, and content for regular level 50s. now if you want to say they dont need any more actual advancement and would be fine with gear and skills of the same powerlevel a max 50 has, i would disagree, we need way more powerfull skills, cooler gear, more difficult enemies, and overall content. I mean i basically have 3 Weapon skill animations at this point concussive blow, seismic shock, and probably simian thrash though i havent seen it. Thats no where near enough. theres like 10 weapons, many use similar models. theres prolly 2 or 3 heavy armor sets? the game is super young content wise.

I agree that the grind element should go down, leveling shouldnt this seperate activity you spend so much time doing just because you want to do more entertaining things, It should happen while doing entertaining things. If you go the other route, this game has a long way to grow in many ways, i think capping it at 50 now, its just means they would have to create some new convulted progression system to take its place, which is fine but theres really no guarantee it would be any less grindy. Look at merits in FFXI basically merits was weaker than leveling and required way more exp for the same result.

In essence the game needs a lot more progression, so they need to have a system with a lot more progression. What you really want to eliminate is the grindyness of whatever system is in place, and the tiers of how high you have to go to do the cool stuff. Weather they cap it or not, if thier idea of how much grind you put in to progress doesnt change, it will feel the same whatever system is in place

[gifthorse]

While i agree that leveling isnt the only progression, having continous content at level 50 will still create the disparity between level 50 players, they have to make content for level 50+++++++ players, and content for regular level 50s. now if you want to say they dont need any more actual advancement and would be fine with gear and skills of the same powerlevel a max 50 has, i would disagree, we need way more powerfull skills, cooler gear, more difficult enemies, and overall content. I mean i basically have 3 Weapon skill animations at this point concussive blow, seismic shock, and probably simian thrash though i havent seen it. Thats no where near enough. theres like 10 weapons, many use similar models. theres prolly 2 or 3 heavy armor sets? the game is super young content wise.

I agree that the grind element should go down, leveling shouldnt this seperate activity you spend so much time doing just because you want to do more entertaining things, It should happen while doing entertaining things. If you go the other route, this game has a long way to grow in many ways, i think capping it at 50 now, its just means they would have to create some new convulted progression system to take its place, which is fine but theres really no guarantee it would be any less grindy. Look at merits in FFXI basically merits was weaker than leveling and required way more exp for the same result.

In essence the game needs a lot more progression, so they need to have a system with a lot more progression. What you really want to eliminate is the grindyness of whatever system is in place, and the tiers of how high you have to go to do the cool stuff. Weather they cap it or not, if thier idea of how much grind you put in to progress doesnt change, it will feel the same whatever system is in place

That is true.

[darkstarpoet1]

While i agree that leveling isnt the only progression, having continous content at level 50 will still create the disparity between level 50 players, they have to make content for level 50+++++++ players, and content for regular level 50s. now if you want to say they dont need any more actual advancement and would be fine with gear and skills of the same powerlevel a max 50 has, i would disagree, we need way more powerfull skills, cooler gear, more difficult enemies, and overall content. I mean i basically have 3 Weapon skill animations at this point concussive blow, seismic shock, and probably simian thrash though i havent seen it. Thats no where near enough. theres like 10 weapons, many use similar models. theres prolly 2 or 3 heavy armor sets? the game is super young content wise.

I agree that the grind element should go down, leveling shouldnt this seperate activity you spend so much time doing just because you want to do more entertaining things, It should happen while doing entertaining things. If you go the other route, this game has a long way to grow in many ways, i think capping it at 50 now, its just means they would have to create some new convulted progression system to take its place, which is fine but theres really no guarantee it would be any less grindy. Look at merits in FFXI basically merits was weaker than leveling and required way more exp for the same result.

In essence the game needs a lot more progression, so they need to have a system with a lot more progression. What you really want to eliminate is the grindyness of whatever system is in place, and the tiers of how high you have to go to do the cool stuff. Weather they cap it or not, if thier idea of how much grind you put in to progress doesnt change, it will feel the same whatever system is in place

i believe this is why overwhelmingly the reason people voted for content to be added first in the polls, but that was completely disregarded. the reason grinding is such a pain at this point is because quite frankly that's about all this game has to offer at this point.

i understand he wanted to make battle changes, but why ask a question knowing regardless of what people voted for he was going to say screw you i don't care what you want i am doing this first anyways.

[gifthorse]

While i agree that leveling isnt the only progression, having continous content at level 50 will still create the disparity between level 50 players, they have to make content for level 50+++++++ players, and content for regular level 50s.

I agree that the grind element should go down, leveling shouldnt this seperate activity you spend so much time doing just because you want to do more entertaining things, It should happen while doing entertaining things. If you go the other route, this game has a long way to grow in many ways, i think capping it at 50 now, its just means they would have to create some new convulted progression system to take its place, which is fine but theres really no guarantee it would be any less grindy. Look at merits in FFXI basically merits was weaker than leveling and required way more exp for the same result.

In essence the game needs a lot more progression, so they need to have a system with a lot more progression. What you really want to eliminate is the grindyness of whatever system is in place, and the tiers of how high you have to go to do the cool stuff. Weather they cap it or not, if thier idea of how much grind you put in to progress doesnt change, it will feel the same whatever system is in place

Well progression through content is still progression. Progression through grind just for the illusion of progression is pretty cheap.

Eliminating grind takes a lot of work, which is why most games fall back on grind as a staple "feature". So far SE has shown no resolve to eliminate it. And quite frankly, they probably can't eliminate grind in a system where you can level up multiple different classes. Anyways, the quest hubs we are getting may provide content, but if it is still separated by exorbitant amounts of boring grind, then that wont change much.

Though perhaps if guildleves were actually fun, we wouldn't consider them a grind. Perhaps if they were fun, we would consider them content.