Problem with Auto-attack

[gifthorse]

To be honest, I think auto-attack will be the downfall of this game's potential. I've hated aggro-indicators, and I have hated the addition of those NPC quests which server little to no purpose at all. But of the latter, I can live with those things, and I can understand why they are implemented. With auto-attack, I just can't see the reasoning in it much at all.

People have two different ideas on what tactics are

1. Stat-based

These kinds of strategies revolve around manipulating the stats of the opponent or one's self. For example, provoke increases one's enmity. Protect increases one's defense. These are all stat-based tactics. And people can use a myriad of combinations to bring down enemies focussing on minimasing the mobs damage and directing the mobs damage and also maximising attack and maximising defence.

Auto-attack works in this system because one spends his or her whole time changing the stats of the mob or the player in order for auto-attack to reach its full potential.

2. Action based

This system involves positioning (moving out of the way of attacks). This system involved blocking (blocking to increase defense). Attack is increased by putting one's self in the correct place, defence by blocking at the right time. Strategies in this system have less emphasis on stats and more emphasis on what people do and how they move.

Auto-attack doesn't work int his system because it defeats the purpose of combat decisions.


The reason I wanted to play FFXIV was because I was promised the latter of the two systems, not the former. I wonder how many other people will agree. And I wonder if SE has made the right choice.

In my opinion, SE should have eliminated such concepts as "provoke" and "protect" and instead made it so that tanks had to stand in front of the mob they were protecting their mages against. SE implemented collision detection but then never used it to their full advantage.

It's kind of disappointing and I wonder if they have utterly destroyed the game's potential, both in terms of enjoyment, and in terms of market potential.

[Lienn]

Well, i do agree with you and i'm also worried about the way FFXIV is taking battle-wise.

I have faith that the devs can fully understand the current system Tanaka team made and that they won't discard it to add a battle system from other game, only adding more options to improve the possibilities of it...but, at same time, the more i read devs posts the weaker my faith becomes...sometimes i feel they not fully understand or control the way the game is going.

[gifthorse]

Well, i do agree with you and i'm also worried about the way FFXIV is taking battle-wise.

I have faith that the devs can fully understand the current system Tanaka team made and that they won't discard it to add a battle system from other game, only adding more options to improve the possibilities of it...but, at same time, the more i read devs posts the weaker my faith becomes...sometimes i feel they not fully understand or control the way the game is going.

My faith was once incredibly strong when Yoshi was put in place of Tanaka. But then it began to waver with every passing month as he promised additions that seemed to throw every other feature of the game into conflict. The game is a confused mess (for want of a better word) at the moment, and i shudder to think where it is heading.

Oh well.

[Yellow]

You're all talking gloom and doom.

:\

Discuss the positives so the devs know what they are doing right.

They are working on things, so you need to remember that until they have stated that they are happy, you can't really say anything that is implemented now is set in stone.

=]

I think they can and will make a great MMO.

[Reika]

I hope they change their mind about the whole auto-attack deal. They still have time to rethink the grand battle system's future.

[Physic]

i realized reading some of the plans, basically FFXIV died. They plan on creating a new game from the ground up, the only thing is they are going to use some of the assets from this game. They are making a whole new game, you just have to hope it will be good, but it wont be what this game was.

[Karbine]

Lets not judge the system before they've released any more than "theres auto attack" released for info shall we?

[Lienn]

IMO auto-attack isn't the only problem...it does can be added in the current system perfectly, bringing no harm for those that like the current system (like i do) and adding the auto-attack option for those that prefer using it.

Everything has 2 sides. IMO they can make the game flexible, offering multiples options so they can have greeks and troys happy...but that's not the way the things are pointing...its like Physic said...its more like they are planning on discarding the current game and making a new one...and i can say i don't want it...but i did what i can...i answered against the drastic changes at first poll, i answered against drastic changes at second poll, i offered several feedback here and even before the forum was launched regarding all points i thought that could be changed with tweaks instead of revamps and i keep asking them to preserve what made this game unique.

But that's all a single player can do...no matter how much effort i put thinking in multiple ways of protecting the current systems from harm, they are only suggestions and can just be discarded at first glance.

So i kind of prefer to post here my concerns since, this way, other players can do the same and we can end being heard by the dev team. ^^

[Roaran]

I am looking foward to auto attack as, after about 1-2 hours of fighting, I usually like to strike up a conversation. But I have to choose whether I want to sacrifice my damage to socialize or play well and stay quiet, as the game requires you to use abilities quite frequently.

FFXI allowed socialization & combat to take place simultaeneously due to limited necessary input, and "camping."

FFXIV has the opposite extremes of camping parties/events and limited input: roaming parties and high input requirements.

Enabling auto attack simply applies one of your most basic attacks for you.

While I was at first VEHEMENTLY against auto attack, I am now extremely excited about its addition. I mostly play with a controller and I do not mind the gameplay currently, pressing the button for attack is not so annoying. Yet when I play with keyboard I am instantly agitated and disgusted with the 1 1 1'ing. Although some classes are able to mix it up, I would guess a range from 40-60% (higher for some classes) of all actions are consumed by "Attack". When you finally move on to Notorious Monsters, the amount of TP gained from attacking is diminished greatly; thus, this proportion is only increased more.

I do not see Auto Attack conflicting with any of the points you make, as there are plenty of other Actions to use strategically. Auto Attack simply makes your choice of actions focus on your unique ones instead of 50% Auto Attack 50% Other. Removing Auto Attack also gives you more time to use your more interesting skills as well, as you will not have to spend time building up TP using Attack; instead, you can use these abilities together.

[gifthorse]

Try as I might, I can't see that socialising while fighting is a good idea. You should be fighting while you're fighting right? And if what you're doing is so monotonous that you must distract yourself from it by socialising, then SE needs to address that problem, not by automating the system, but by giving people less monotonous things to do.

Perhaps they could just add a toggle for auto-attack so that people can flip it on or off when they really really need to talk. This could still preserve the action-based combat we were promised.

To further the original combat system, SE would first need to believe in it. And it's obvious that they don't. If they don't even believe in the concept behind their product, they can't begin to improve it. Instead of improving it, SE are merely set to destroy it.