Potions

[Roaran]

Ever since I started playing Final Fantasy games, my first being FF7, there has been a continual pattern concerning potions. They always seemed to be an integral tool for the characters during battle, and they seemed to be used fairly liberally. Yet in both FFXI & FFXIV, potions have not been given the same attention.

I have a few suggestions to make:

• Increase the Effectiveness of Potions
• Remove the Potion Cooldown
• Economics of Potion Use
• Battle Mechanics of Potion Use

In order for potions to become a significant part of an adventurer's arsenal, they need to be effective. There are a variety of potions that can either replenish HP and MP or remove status ailments. I believe, at the moment, Ethers and the Potions that remove status ailments work very nicely; but, they are not used often, as the need to do so is simply not there. However, Potions currently do not replenish enough Health to warrant their use. Two examples, Solo & Group:

In a solo battle, a Player may find themselves in a position where they are low on health. Assuming this player has some potions on hand and decides to use them, they may recover upwards of around 200-250 HP. However this will only recover enough HP to consume one more attack. Thus this leaves the player right where he/she started before using the potion, and may have even allowed the target to gain enough TP to finish off the player. Therefore, in a Solo encounter, using potions is either a gamble or a detriment to the player.

In a group battle, the Player may find themselves in a position where they are low on Health. This may be due to incidental damage or by direct damage after gaining aggro. In either case a Potion is beneficial, but not effective. We can use the Great Buffalo fight as an example. During this fight, as a melee fighter, a player will consistently recieve incidental damage from the NM. While it does not hurt to use potions, it does not necessarily help much either. Replenishing 200-250 HP from a 1,000 damage hit is minimal, and requires a steadfast reliance on your healers.

In both situations, it is best to forgo potions alltogether and focus entirely on finishing off the monster quicker than it can do so to you or rely entirely on your healers to keep you alive.

After addressing the effectiveness, the cooldown on potions should be removed. While I do acknowledge why a cooldown might seem necessary, I believe it's removal is the only way to bring more potions to the battlefield.

First I would point out the built in cooldown that would remain. A Player must always wait for the current potion's animation to finish before using the next, so Potion spamming is still mitigated in this way. A second point to be made, a player who chooses to use potions sacrifices their own role to 'fill-in' for the healers. A smart player will automatically recognize this and use potions as effeciently as possible. In addition, the gil cost to the player will motivate them in a similar manner.

By removing this cooldown, players will naturally be able to use more Potions. This on its own will lead to potions being used more. Players will not have to choose from healing themselves or others, as they would be able to both; yet, they would still be limited by the use animation, and they would be sacrificing their damage to do so.

I'm not entirely sure how much gil Alchemists are making. A quick glance at the alchemy skills... I see mostly Dyes and Shard/Crystal synthesis. Perhaps they are making quite a bit of gil off of these, but that looks rather boring to me. I could see Alchemy and the Economy in general benefitting from these changes.

There would need to be a reliable source of Potion materials available through gathering or battle. Materials for Potions from Grade 1 resources, Hi-Potions and etc from higher grade sources. This allows for the lowest end to be cheap and more potent potions to be slightly more expensive. Rarer types, Elixers for example, might require ingredients from battle to keep them rare and used sparingly.

A whole new market for potions would emerge, giving the game economy yet another interesting dynamic that sets itself apart from other MMOs. Because buying potions would not be absolutely necessary, the gil spent on these items is most likely going from sitting around in a players inventory to becoming active in the economy. Example:

Player purchases 99 Hi-Potions for 99,000G >> Alchemist Recieves 99,000G and spends it on 500 Ice Shards. >> Noob recieves 99,000G and spends on equipment.

This is just one example. The Player benefits from being able to use Potions on himself and his party to help take down their prey; The Alchemist benefits either by additional gil or by being able to continue leveling his craft. The Noob benefits by being able to equip better gear. The noob could just as easily be replaced by the Botanist who supplied the alchemist his materials, or on some other purchase. Unlike Weapons & Armor, Potions are consumed on use; this allows for a continual demand for potions without seeing huge price fluctuations.

The introduction of effective & liberal potion use would have a few effects. First, content is more readily available to different groups of players; and, secondly, players will have the ability to engage in a new battle mechanic in addition to their current class roles.

The players that benefit from Potion use range from solo to party.

I believe there are two scenarios where a solo player can benefit from Potions. First, when a solo player encounters a leve that is abnormally more difficult than the others. Right now this player would probably lower the difficulty or give up if a leve proves just slightly too difficult; this leaves the player demoralized or frustrated. However, a few effective potions might prove themselves to be just enough to help this adventurer succesfully complete their mission; this would leave the player feeling great after combining tactics and his/her gil to overcome this problem. Solo players will not only benefit from potions when they randomly encounter difficult situations, but when they choose to engage more difficult situations by themselves. Not all solo players are created equal, and not all are able to solo like everyone else. Whether from skill or class, some players will be disadvantaged. Potions may be able to close that gap. In addition, better players might seek more challenges by themselves. By bringing along a few potions, a player might be able to take down a NM he/she may not have been able to without.

The same could be said about groups of players with one addition. With such small parties (4-8 players), often times the group isn't always the most ideal formation. For example, a NM Leve party with 4 people might have no healer and only one player capable of using heals on their off class. They would at least have the option of engaging in this type of content by complimenting their group with potions.

The main point being, Potions would widen & expand the content available to ALL groups of players. Whether you are a solo player or a small core group of players, potions would allow players to engage in more content of varrying difficulty.

_______________________________________________________________________

Finally, adding effective and liberal potion use to FFXIV is an arbitrary choice, but not one without reason. FFXIV is a Final Fantasy game. Unlike most FF games, FFXI & FFXIV have not encorporated potions to a similar degree as previous games. Everything I have writting up to this point is why I believe FFXIV can benefit from a similar system. I also happen to believe the same nostalgic gameplay found in older FF titles can be fun, engaging, and balanced in an MMO.

It is possible to balance the game both with or without potions. The reason I am writing this lengthy post is because I strongly believe the game could be more interesting with more significant potions.

I would just like to take some time to address some concerns people may have:

End-Game being too easy. I think this is an obvious concern; but, in many FF games battles were often easy because the player had reach a higher level than the encounter was intended for. In addition, many battles were much more interesting and harder because they required potions. I'm not necessarily saying all end-game content should force players to use Potions, nor am I suggesting content should require bosses continually wiping a group and having them use phoenix downs over and over. I would just suggest it is equally possible to balance end game with or without potions. It simply requires the choice to be made.

Potions remove the need for healers. I think this is another obvious concern. I believe just the opposite. Healers remove the need for potions. Thus healers would still be good to have for any party, as they save the group from having to spend gil on potions. Similarily when a group has several Conjurers or Thaumaturges, a few of them shift from healing roles to damaging roles. Potions will be able to help facilitate more players, if they choose to do so, to shift into damaging roles.

(Posting Conclusion as Reply)

[Roaran]

We have a Choice to make; Potions or No. If you have read through this post and you support the general idea, please support this thread. Right now is probably the best time to get this through to the Devs, as the first dungeon has yet to be released and they are currently working to tweak the battle system. But the choice is simple. Potions will either become an interesting and unique aspect carried from older FF games into FFXIV, or it will be one of the core mechanics that was never succesfully transmitted into its multiplayer counterparts.

Finally just want to outline what would need to be done to implement the core idea.

• Increase Potion Effectiveness

  Make them Heal for more.
  Introduce an Optimal Rank for Potions to ensure higher level potions are not abused.
  Examples: Potion Rank 1: 200HP Hi-Potion Rank 20: 500HP Mega Potion Rank 40: 1000HP
  Remove Potion Cooldown

• Ensure Potions are Plentiful

  Materials for Potions are abundant.
  Synthesis Recipes are not complicated.
  Introduce single rarer materials for more desireable potions to keep them rare and expensive.

• Balance End Game with Potions in Mind

  While healers may reduce the need to use Potions, the best players will always bring them. In order for them to still see a challenge the highest tier of content should either require a high level of competance by healers or keep in mind an introduction of potions will mean parties will be using damaging spells more often.

[toshimoog]

I've always wanted potions to be in FFXI ever since I started playing. Well, they ARE in the game, but nobody ever uses them.

I want to be able to rely on potions like I did in the other games. They need to be cheap, come in large quantities, and somehow work like they did in the single player games.

Although, this means something else, too:
The battle UI needs a complete makeover if this is gonna work. We probably would be best off with the classic menu-style battle UI.
Attack
Magic
Abilities
Items

Something like that. That's how FFXI worked, and it works. I don't see why it can't work in this game. I don't know how many people agree with me, but I want that kind of battle menu back. But that's not the point of your thread, sorry.

Yes, I would like to see potions return like old times.

[toshimoog]

[*]Ensure Potions are Plentiful

Materials for Potions are abundant.
Synthesis Recipes are not complicated.
Introduce single rarer materials for more desireable potions to keep them rare and expensive.

I was thinking if potions are gonna be synthesizable, they should make it so that one run-through gets you multiple amounts of potions (like 5 or so) since they would be cheap to buy from NPCs anyway. I think that's the only way it would really work.

Except for the higher-end potions you mentioned, depending on how good it is, those can probably be created one at a time.

[Mudd]

Didn't they mention somewhere that they were adding hi-ethers and max-ethers and stuff to the game?

I imagine that they might already plan to make potions or at least ethers if nothing else, a more integral part of the game.
I would like to see potions become viable myself. On one occasion I used a Potion +3 and it gave me like over 300hp.. thats not bad..