[dev1022] The Battle Regimen HATE thread and a ply for auto-attack

[Majidah]

Is there a point in replying? Pretty much 5 pages of this thread are a bunch of people arguing with a troll, one guy told others to stop feeding it and he got shot down. I even replied to what was said before and I believe it covers a lot of what said afterwards but it seems no one even read it.

[Mack]

I take it you haven't looked at the debuffs granted via BR, nor the increased damage output from a stack of 3+.

This wasn't the point because this would be the same if it was done in a manner similar to skillchains, it would just be more DPS because you're not waiting for everyone to cue up.

[Reika]

How about people waiting for others to perform the right skill so they can preform theirs? it is still waiting dude. And unless they sped it up since the last time I played, it was too slow and put me to sleep.

[Impulse]

This wasn't the point because this would be the same if it was done in a manner similar to skillchains, it would just be more DPS because you're not waiting for everyone to cue up.

It's part of the point s/he was attempting to make. They said BRs lower DPS which is entirely false. I don't see how you could have distorted that into something skillchainish since this is how it is now. The only way you would be losing DPS and sitting in queue via regimen would be if your party sucks and doesn't know how to pull off a BR properly and efficiently. You shouldn't be in queue for more than 2 seconds.

http://screenshot.xfire.com/s/113092734-4.jpg
The BR executed before that screenshot was taken took Downy Dunstan down from near full to dead in less than 3 seconds, where whacking it without BR would've taken at least a minute or two.
How you get "more DPS" without BR is beyond me. Sure, it'll seem that way if your group is slow to stack and execute the regime but the fact of the matter is that it does *not* lower DPS and only increases it, both immediately and over time via the debuffs granted.

[Speeral]

I tbink people just don;t like my opinon and vs letting me have it pull the "you don't play" card as to think im going to think differently if I play.
Just because I'm not of the same opinion as you that I don;t understand something. I could care less about a persons dps. As long as we have fun thats all I care about.

ya but Kilta the the game isn't 111111111111111111111, you'd have to be useless just pressing 1.
That was before they changed sp. now if you are smart and maximize yourself ur flipping between skill and skill sets to maximize dmg, tp building, buffing, and minding your stamina.

Before you can make an argument about the functions of the game take time to research them so you know what you're talking about. You have zero credibility sorry.

[Speeral]

well maximum 5 second . .

profundity II increased cast times for mages, if chainspell is down.

[KaiKatzchen]

Is there a point in replying? Pretty much 5 pages of this thread are a bunch of people arguing with a troll, one guy told others to stop feeding it and he got shot down. I even replied to what was said before and I believe it covers a lot of what said afterwards but it seems no one even read it.

I’ll agree with you on that. No offence to said poster, but they don’t play FFXIV and only tend to use mechanics from other games (one in particular) to try and make solid points about this game... and this game is not other games. It may have things in it that feel like other games, but it is its own beast. I’ve just been ignoring it because it’s a senseless battle arguing with someone who has stated in may post that they don’t believe anything they say is wrong (according to their posts), will always say its other people being too critical on them (according to their posts), and who can’t even give a solid argument without using another game as a basis because they don’t play this one. People can have fun banging their heads against a brick wall; I’ll opt out of that fun and keep my opinion to their comments to myself.

BUT GETTING BACK ON TOPIC!

As to what you said:

The only thing autoattack does is give more time to talk with your teamates and to think and trigger skills without downtime caused by moving through your skills.
Or even better, where did you pay more attention during battles? In XI with its autoattack or in XIV with its consistant mashing?
Answer: XI.
And well, the player involvement required in skillchains being a lot higher than BR isn't even up for argument.
edit // PS:
Also, if it didn't work the way it did, you'd have more time to trigger buffs off or harness more TP for 2k+ tp skills. You also wouldn't be risking having your buffs wear off due to someone else. You'd be a lot more in control.
Do you like the effects of BRs? I said nothing against them. You could easily keep those without giving away all the control you have over whats being done.
The roles are reversed here: BRs basically make the system play for you, while you do what the system should be doing. Mashing one over and over.

In all honesty I played FFXI for about 6 years and I feel (and of course this is simply my opinion) that auto attack plays the game for you much more than BR’s do, and I feel like BR’s require as much if not MORE involvement that WS’s in FFXI. When I played FFXI, and I am a classic multi-tasker, I could listen to music, talk to people and have the TV on in the background watching whatever while playing. Every once in a while I might have to pay attention just to make sure I got my WS off in time to make a SC and that was the only thing timing was good for.

As I said in my last post, BR is ALL about timing. First you have to time to make sure that you get the Light/Heavy off within a specific amount of time, if you do not you make the group wait in queue. Once you get that off then you have to get off the WS within a specific amount of time, if you’re too late it doesn’t help or you have to let either the BR or the WS go because you won’t get anything out of it.

In all the multi-layers of the BR system that you have to have good timing on vs. FFXI where you pretty much just had to pay attention to make sure WS’s went off in the right order. I do not think that BR’s play the system for you because the whole effectiveness of the BR is totally dependent on the players using it within the allotted time and correct order. Since it is totally based off the payers doing this correctly, then it cannot be based off the system playing it for you. I know for a fact I don’t press ‘1 1 1 1 1’ over and over while doing a BR, I actually have to hit a few different buttons from the beginning of the BR to the end of the BR and I actually use a combination of controller and keyboard to make this work.

All in all I understand your point of view, and as stated before, I am unsure if you’ve had a party that knew how to use BR’s in a fast and effective way. I love them, I feel they bring a lot to the table and that they should stay… while I appreciate your opinion, I don’t agree with it.

To be honest it’s hard to compare the two and say one is better than another because they are different systems. I’m not saying I don’t like auto attack, I just don’t agree that BR’s are useless. Anyway… anything over time, if you do it enough, will become instinct and in that situation become easy for the players to do and they won’t have to pay as much attention.

[Arcell]

I know it's been said before but the people who generally do not like BR are the ones who have never used it effectively. It adds a layer of depth and coordination to a fight that doesn't exist otherwise. The people participating in the BR have to know what they're doing and have to be quick about it. You shouldn't be stuck queued up for a BR for longer than 5 seconds, otherwise your group is taking too long. The debuffs it puts on a monster are incredibly useful, especially in regards to magic. Seeing a mage consistently do 1k+ damage with a single spell is great and seeing a hit for 3k+ is amazing. You can't get that kind of damage outside of properly using BR.

[Majidah]

It's part of the point s/he was attempting to make. They said BRs lower DPS which is entirely false. I don't see how you could have distorted that into something skillchainish since this is how it is now. The only way you would be losing DPS and sitting in queue via regimen would be if your party sucks and doesn't know how to pull off a BR properly and efficiently. You shouldn't be in queue for more than 2 seconds.

http://screenshot.xfire.com/s/113092734-4.jpg
The BR executed before that screenshot was taken took Downy Dunstan down from near full to dead in less than 3 seconds, where whacking it without BR would've taken at least a minute or two.
How you get "more DPS" without BR is beyond me. Sure, it'll seem that way if your group is slow to stack and execute the regime but the fact of the matter is that it does *not* lower DPS and only increases it, both immediately and over time via the debuffs granted.

BRs do lower DPS. Then make it up with extra damage. But does it lower DPS by freezing everyone in a limbo? Yes it does.
Think about it this way:
Lets say 5 players are doing a BR. The first one starts it, then four more stack up. From the first one triggering it, to the fifth one, each player is wasting stamina they could be using to attack.

On the other hand, if there was no queue menu and it was done like skillchains were done, people would still be able to whack the enemy in the meantime. Thats 4 players actively attacking.

You might be great at coordinating with your friends and unleashing BRs, but you can't deny there's a limbo. And that you could be doing something else in the meantime. Like casting a cure or triggering a provoke, or even increasing the DPS with a normal attack.

Not to mention that putting everything in an automatic menu takes away the fun/challenge entirely from the battle. You plan how it goes once. That's about it for BRs.

[AshelyRiot]

I find it funny that people complain about auto attack when most single player games do not have it. Such as fable, the elder scrolls, Zelda. And a few mmo, including DCUO.

I like brs for the simple fact its more free'er. And you still need to coordinate which br to use since you need to do them fast to prevent a long player limbo.

What people forget is not every ws in ffxi was a combo. This lead to alot of jobs getting benched due the inablility to do a skill chain with the set up.

Which is even more funny as that time went on people stop caring about skill chains and just set up dd zergfest with a PL.

Br are more free'er since there is really no "wrong" way to do it in a sence. Like having 2 basic attacks, or having 2 magic attacks. You don;t need anything specific so anyone can paricipate.

Whicxh was a flaw in ffxi which they tried to fix, since only a handful of job wetre "needed" for a party, and if you wasn't one of those job you didn't get a party. Unless it was a last resort.

Plain and simple STFU damn near 2k posts and haven't even touched the game. So tired of seeing your crap posts and you don't know S***