dev1031 You are losing your main playerbase by making things too easy/fast/casual

[Shiyo]

SE, you are losing your main playerbase and main followers(old FFXI players/hardcore players) by trying to make this game more casual and accessible for all players. The new NM's you released in yesterdays patch demonstrate this. 3-5 min repops, not even rare drops? Really? Everyone is going to have this gear in 1 day to a week. Spending 3-6 months to design and release content that'll only last a day to a week is BAD DESIGN. In FFXI all your content lasted YEARS, which was great! It kept people playing and paying for their subs! More $$. What are the players supposed to do after they beat this content in 1-7 days that took 3-6 months to release? Nothing, they'll cancel their subs and quit, or become very bored and eventually quit. FFXI lasted 8 years because it's niche in the MMO market was hardcore/hard, pretty much no other MMO in the market at the time fit in that niche, allowing the game to grow and stay alive for years. To this day, the same can be said, except FFXI no longer fills that niche, no game does. FFXIV should follow and become the hardcore/hard game that FFXI once was.

Why you ask? The reason is simple, casual gamers may make up the majority, but they won't stick around forever, they'll get bored after a few months, and move onto better casual games such as Rift or WOW. These games are much better for casual gamers, and more people play them allowing them to play with irl friends/family/etc more easily. Hardcore players on the other hand, they'll stick around forever. Most of the hardcore players(pretty much all) stayed around in FFXI for YEARS, 5-8 years, an insane amount of time, because the game was perfect for them, and they still had things they wanted, things they needed to get done, level, drops, etc. The game took time and dedication, so even the most hardcore had to play it for 5+ years to get everything they wanted.



Please, I beg of you, do not turn this game into a casual western-MMO like every other MMO on the market, we have far too many of them already, why not try to fit the niche of hardcore/hard and take those players, instead of trying to steal players from other games(and fail doing so)? There is currently ZERO mmos that are hardcore/hard on the market ATM, this would be a very wise decision, and if you read the forums you'll see many FFXI veterans complaining about the direction this game is going.

[Eekiki]

I'm a former FFXI player from NA beta right up until I joined the XIV closed beta last year, and I also play FFXIV for several hours virtually every day. Whether you consider that "hardcore" or not doesn't matter to me. I just play the game, but I still fit into your definition of "main playerbase".

I'm happy with the direction the game is moving in. I'm also looking at the big picture. The game is a work in progress, and it isn't as simple as fixing a few glitches or something that's unbalanced. It's in the middle of a complete overhaul.

If the game doesn't work to begin with, how well it works is irrelevant.

Remember when the fatigue system was first introduced back in the closed beta? There was an explosion of rage on the beta forums because everyone was getting sapped by it, and none of them realized that SE had intentionally made people get affected by it quickly and severely because they were testing it. If they had set it as it eventually was when the game was released, few people if any would have seen it, and SE would have no way of knowing if it worked as they intended.

Never forget that until SE starts charging a subscription fee, what we are playing is a glorified beta test. Party mechanics, NM encounters, pretty much anything SE introduces into the game needs to be tested before it can be tweaked to fit SE's true intention, which neither you, I, nor anyone else who posts on these forums knows for sure.

The best way to get the most data from your testing is to make sure as many people as possible can access the stuff. That means making it easy to get to and complete.

And before anyone says, "SE knows how to do NMs! They did it in FFXI!" Let me remind you again that this game is not FFXI. It is a completely different animal.

Instead of getting angry, get constructive.

[Chezen]

It's interesting, because I've always had an opposite view. Casual gamers tend to be more laid back. They are satisfied with completing just a little bit everyday, rather than all at once. Hardcore players tend to burn through everything.

Not that I'm against what you are saying about the NMs. I don't really have an opinion about that.

[Elexia]

Yeah, and it's sad that this "isn't XI", since all of XIV's problems began by trying to be too different from XI instead of taking what worked (the basics, the groundwork) and evolved from there with what "XIV" had to offer.

I truly think the only problem with catering to "hardcore" players is because the general bunch of them dislike casuals or anyone "not worthy" obtaining gear or completing goals.

[Kallera]

Yeah, and it's sad that this "isn't XI", since all of XIV's problems began by trying to be too different from XI instead of taking what worked (the basics, the groundwork) and evolved from there with what "XIV" had to offer.

I truly think the only problem with catering to "hardcore" players is because the general bunch of them dislike casuals or anyone "not worthy" obtaining gear or completing goals.

In a way they're never going to be sated because they will burn through the content faster than the dev team can code it.

Imagine ffxiv is a food, the hardcore wolf it down and demand more before realizing they are full or enjoying the taste, the casual eat it slower and are satisfied with the mealonce they've finished (or get leftovers for tommorrow.)

[Shiyo]

In a way they're never going to be sated because they will burn through the content faster than the dev team can code it.

Imagine ffxiv is a food, the hardcore wolf it down and demand more before realizing they are full or enjoying the taste, the casual eat it slower and are satisfied with the mealonce they've finished (or get leftovers for tommorrow.)

This isn't EXACTLY true, but it can be in some ways. In FFXI the content couldn't really be "Burned through" in such a speed that you'd have to wait MONTHS(3-6) for them to actually add stuff, however in this game it seems to be the trend for things. Content should last longer than it takes to make, and that isn't very difficult to do as we saw in FFXI.

[Chezen]

This isn't EXACTLY true, but it can be in some ways. In FFXI the content couldn't really be "Burned through" in such a speed that you'd have to wait MONTHS(3-6) for them to actually add stuff, however in this game it seems to be the trend for things. Content should last longer than it takes to make, and that isn't very difficult to do as we saw in FFXI.

Then maybe what the conflict really is, is that hardcores will burn through what a casual would be satisfied with, and casuals will never get through what a hardcore is satisfied with. Speaking strictly in terms of playtime and not difficulty.

But as many have pointed out, I don't see why the game can't support both.

[Corrderio]

This isn't EXACTLY true, but it can be in some ways. In FFXI the content couldn't really be "Burned through" in such a speed that you'd have to wait MONTHS(3-6) for them to actually add stuff, however in this game it seems to be the trend for things. Content should last longer than it takes to make, and that isn't very difficult to do as we saw in FFXI.

Agreed, hopefully the instanced content coming next month remedies that.

[derekx]

This isn't EXACTLY true, but it can be in some ways. In FFXI the content couldn't really be "Burned through" in such a speed that you'd have to wait MONTHS(3-6) for them to actually add stuff, however in this game it seems to be the trend for things. Content should last longer than it takes to make, and that isn't very difficult to do as we saw in FFXI.

BS.

"Hard core" players had the first add-on scenarios done in a day. They always burn through the newest content as fast as possible except when that content is artificially limited. Examples include: Relic weapons via currency, limbus and dynamis via entry restrictions, and Absolute Virtue to give the dev team a chuckle.

Every time one single update comes out that doesn't have content someone wants in it the game is coming to an end.