These forums becoming unbearable?

[MaxWinter]

To op- I just want say not all old final fantasy 11 players want the game to be like final fantasy 11 , myself if they turned game into a kingdom heart type battle sytem i would love that but it unrealistic on an online game.
I prefer fast past action battles, i think final fantasy vs 13 will appeal alot to me because of this.
The online final fantasy are alot slower and tatical, i like tatical but i also like blisteringly fast pace gamestyles.

There is alot to like about ff11 , i may not be a hardcore player from 11 but i did do some of toughest mission fights in the game , for example alexander in the toau.
What people got out of that was a feeling of whoa that was a crazy tough battle and took us 8 times to fight it but we won in the end.
There was also frustrations for me such as a tower climb i had to try over 12 times before giving up on it that put me off ever finishing the ACP final battle.

The mission in wings of goddess where i and party had to climb the castle with monsters full of impossible to gauge monsters that if teamed up on the whole party could wipe and invisble and sneak up to get there , it sounds frustarating but it was a challenge to get up there and win the fight which we did as a party.

This can be too extreme or if done right can be rewarding.
Some people playing ff14 probley never played 11 and want a fun enjoyable game that does not scare them away and i want that too as a player that has been through that challenge that 11 had.

On another note i think current team are doing a great job with the game and i want the community to support them like they are supporting players atm.
Im sure they dont take to heart too much all negative stuff that is said anyway.

[gifthorse]

I don't hate whining and hating, but the one thing I do hate is people with no imagination trying to call the shots.

"Well FFXI did it this way..."

"FF7 did it this way..."

"WoW did it like so..."

Get a brain people!

[Winterclaw]

I don't hate whining and hating, but the one thing I do hate is people with no imagination trying to call the shots.

Since there's nothing new under the sun...









rip off all the good ideas instead of the bad ones.

[gifthorse]

Since there's nothing new under the sun...

rip off all the good ideas instead of the bad ones.

That's terrible advice LOL. Developers should pretend that no other games exist and then develop their dreams from there, only looking to other games as pragmatists to see how certain things were implemented. They shouldn't look to other games first and then blatantly rip off ideas that they were too unimaginative to think of themselves.

The reason for this is because when developers think of an idea - that's if they think of an idea at all - they are usually limited by the technology at their disposal when implementing it. The first MMOs ever released didn't have the tools that todays developers have, and yet Ultima Online (for example) implemented player-made housing, mount-taming, and many other novel features. They had nothing to look to for inspiration, and that helped them make a good game, based solely on their own imaginations. But their ideas were limited to the technology of the era, and so the idead that implementated were limited. Nowadays, developers have the ability to do better. But they will never be able to do better if they look only at the implementation of the idea and then imitate it rather than reimagine it.

[Peregrine]

The reason for this is because when developers think of an idea - that's if they think of an idea at all - they are usually limited by the technology at their disposal when implementing it. The first MMOs ever released didn't have the tools that todays developers have, and yet Ultima Online (for example) implemented player-made housing, mount-taming, and many other novel features. They had nothing to look to for inspiration, and that helped them make a good game, based solely on their own imaginations. But their ideas were limited to the technology of the era, and so the idead that implementated were limited. Nowadays, developers have the ability to do better. But they will never be able to do better if they look only at the implementation of the idea and then imitate it rather than reimagine it.

Ok so that's the idealist soapbox. In reality there is no new technology here. 3d? Oooh. MMO concepts are a limited resource, they are NOT boundless unwritten worlds limited only by imagination. For the concept to fit the market and genre, it has to be addictive and time consuming. Basic human psychology limits what kinds of activities that entails. The best and easiest concepts get tapped quickly, and then after a maintenance phase the field starts to become stale if it's just not that great of an idea to begin with.

The goal is to not revolutionize and revolutionize forever, or die. The goal is to become such a good fundamental idea that people will always want the product. Like Coke. Coke needs no revolution. No innovation. The product has enough inherent value to stay forever as it is.

If MMOs don't, they'll just contract or be perpetually tried and burnt out on by new 14-22 year olds each generation. If you're tired of MMOs, you're probably done with MMOs. Don't be expecting them to change much. WoW, Rift, FFXI...that's about as good as it gets folks. This is the product. It's either good enough or it isn't. It's not a diamond in the rough any more.

[gifthorse]

Ok so that's the idealist soapbox. In reality there is no new technology here. 3d? Oooh. MMO concepts are a limited resource, they are NOT boundless unwritten worlds limited only by imagination. For the concept to fit the market and genre, it has to be addictive and time consuming. Basic human psychology limits what kinds of activities that entails. The best and easiest concepts get tapped quickly, and then after a maintenance phase the field starts to become stale if it's just not that great of an idea to begin with.

The goal is to not revolutionize and revolutionize forever, or die. The goal is to become such a good fundamental idea that people will always want the product. Like Coke. Coke needs no revolution. No innovation. The product has enough inherent value to stay forever as it is.

If MMOs don't, they'll just contract or be perpetually tried and burnt out on by new 14-22 year olds each generation. If you're tired of MMOs, you're probably done with MMOs. Don't be expecting them to change much. WoW, Rift, FFXI...that's about as good as it gets folks. This is the product. It's either good enough or it isn't. It's not a diamond in the rough any more.

And that's the pessimist's view. It's a sad indictment on the genre's potential if WoW and FFXI are the best it can do. Fortunately, we are seeing games like Guild Wars 2 , ArcheAge, and TERA innovating and adding new ideas to the genre.

[Winterclaw]

That's terrible advice LOL. Developers should pretend that no other games exist and then develop their dreams from there, only looking to other games as pragmatists to see how certain things were implemented. They shouldn't look to other games first and then blatantly rip off ideas that they were too unimaginative to think of themselves.

The reason for this is because when developers think of an idea - that's if they think of an idea at all - they are usually limited by the technology at their disposal when implementing it. The first MMOs ever released didn't have the tools that todays developers have, and yet Ultima Online (for example) implemented player-made housing, mount-taming, and many other novel features. They had nothing to look to for inspiration, and that helped them make a good game, based solely on their own imaginations. But their ideas were limited to the technology of the era, and so the idead that implementated were limited. Nowadays, developers have the ability to do better. But they will never be able to do better if they look only at the implementation of the idea and then imitate it rather than reimagine it.

In that case rip off UO.

Innovation can be good like the DS or it can be junk like the virtual boy. It's a double edged sword and it can help you or it can hurt you if you decide to innovate in the wrong direction.

Likewise there's times when other games are doing it wrong and times where you shouldn't reinvent the wheel. If you want markets, eve's market system was really nice and it allowed things like trading from one town to the next to be a real profession. If you want a dye system for armor, I've really love what GW2 is doing.

Finally new ideas are difficult to do and make popular. ATITD is an innovative idea for an MMO, but I haven't played it. I've heard of new games being developed to revolutionize MMOs but they tend to either be gutted or turned into vaporware. Also people who are fans of one idea will hate anything that's different than what they are used to. For example, I've suggested on the forums to get rid of skills designed mostly to manage hate: ie to make group combat about kiting and proper positioning... it didn't get much traction. Yet for just about every MMO I can think of, there is a tank class and he's got a skill that draws AI attention. The thing is, those skills were originally developed before sophisticated 3d interfaces, and despite it being nearly 30 years later, a same old cliche design is still in there... which is an example of ripping off a bad idea.

[gifthorse]

In that case rip off UO.

Innovation can be good like the DS or it can be junk like the virtual boy. It's a double edged sword and it can help you or it can hurt you if you decide to innovate in the wrong direction.

Likewise there's times when other games are doing it wrong and times where you shouldn't reinvent the wheel. If you want markets, eve's market system was really nice and it allowed things like trading from one town to the next to be a real profession. If you want a dye system for armor, I've really love what GW2 is doing.

Finally new ideas are difficult to do and make popular. ATITD is an innovative idea for an MMO, but I haven't played it. I've heard of new games being developed to revolutionize MMOs but they tend to either be gutted or turned into vaporware. Also people who are fans of one idea will hate anything that's different than what they are used to. For example, I've suggested on the forums to get rid of skills designed mostly to manage hate: ie to make group combat about kiting and proper positioning... it didn't get much traction. Yet for just about every MMO I can think of, there is a tank class and he's got a skill that draws AI attention. The thing is, those skills were originally developed before sophisticated 3d interfaces, and despite it being nearly 30 years later, a same old cliche design is still in there... which is an example of ripping off a bad idea.

Yeah exactly.

Just look at Final Fantasy games in general. The whole battle system is heavily reliant on stats. But sats don't reflect reality. Stats were originally the best that game designers could do though if they wanted to reflect reality and progression. And yet even though nowadays game developers are able to reflect reality in more reality-reflecting ways, instead they fall back to the stat-based systems. Enmity-controlling skills are a perfect example of that.

[Kilta_Firelotus]

ima agree with op. And please stop debating in here, making the thread be off topic, debating about the fighting :3 Everyone in general is attack each other ve the topic, using post counts, not playing, etc etc to make their point mor right. That is called mudslinging. And that does need to stop. A lot of peoples post do have an angery hostil tone.

It is a game guys, we don't need all this drama, fighting, mudslinging over it. We are no longer discussing the game, but fighting with each other.

for example getting mad @ someone for posting
"don't expect cs, they take a long time to do" is a bit much, blowing up at then for
"not knowing about it" it stupid. Maybe they know more then you think, or maybe you infsct don't really know. But that is beside the point. Point is anyone who bought ffxiv can post here. Everyone has a right to an opinion if someone makes in error insomething don't get mad, fix and explain the error calmly. Everyone, playing or not, wants a fun popular game.
so lets just make up ok.