(Un)Official Arcanist/Summmoner Feedback Thread

[abesut]

lol?

Bio II -> Miasma -> Bio -> (Fester in between GCD) [mob at half now] -> Thunder -> Ruin II-> (Energy Drain in between GCDs) [mob is dead depending on crits] -> Ruin -> dead mob.

5-6 GCDs for trash mobs. I haven't seen anyone kill faster, and especially not from nothing.


edit: and fyi my Fester crits for 600-800 at 47.


Edit2: Or how about sending titan on a mob -> Bio II/Miasma/Bio/Thunder -> Switch target and use Aetherflow stacks+DoTs on second mob. Take out 2 at the same time. Much faster than anyone else.


Edit: And to the OP, Rouse and Spur are different. One is damage, the other is physical/magical attack power. The second scales better with stats. The first is static.

And FYI: his flare hits for 1k with NO CRIT.

What I'm talking about is single target dmg, and not how many mobs I can kill at the same time. I doubt you can compete with a blm on a single target like a boss etc.

[Kevee]

And FYI: his flare hits for 1k with NO CRIT.

What I'm talking about is single target dmg, and not how many mobs I can kill at the same time. I doubt you can compete with a blm on a single target like a boss etc.

You mentioned trash mobs.


Single target BLM is weaker over time, higher burst. BLM is actually poor DPS over time, especially since you can't stack thunders.

Edit: And fyi, I'm 47. Not 50. I'm guessing Fester will be ~600-700 noncrit with good gear at 50.

[abesut]

You mentioned trash mobs.


Single target BLM is weaker over time, higher burst. BLM is actually poor DPS over time, especially since you can't stack thunders.

Edit: And fyi, I'm 47. Not 50. I'm guessing Fester will be ~600-700 noncrit with good gear at 50.

I have yet to experience what you describe; I've only seen BLM outdmg, as well as BRD, which is a support/dps class aswell.
And for every time you put up one of your dots, a BLM nukes the **** out of the target.
Comparing Flare to Fester, which is a CD based spell, that requires you to use another CD to unlock is just silly.
Not to mention that you have to spend at least 4 casts on reapplying your dots before they run out, or you lose dmg as well, in that time you won't do higher dmg, and in that window a BLM can cast both Flare and Fire III.
Again, I have yet to experience what you say, therefor I've hard time accepting your statement

[Seraphi]

My BLM friend roflstomps me in dmg, he casts Flare instead of the last Fire III. This is his rotation: Blizzard III (until 3 stacks)->Transpose->Fire III->Flare->transpose. Repeat. He kills EVERYTHING while leaving me in the dust, TRYING to catch up :P its not uncommon that his flare hits for 1k either >_> he even laughed when Ifrit-egi unleashed his almighty Inferno which did so little dmg compared to his Flare ._. Sad panda
Right and don't forget that WHM has Holy with a 240p + stun. I feel sad when a WHM can clear trash mobs faster than me ='(

Stop comparing classes with "how fast he kills trash mobs compared to me". While nuking trash mobs into the ground is fun, it's mostly trivial content and shouldn't be used as precedence.

That said, numbers aren't really that well known at this time, so it's mostly all speculation/theorycraft right now and nothing empirical. As it stands, it's mostly obvious stuff. BLM has more burst, SMN has more reliable sustained DPS. This is something you should accept as a DoT class.

Also, you might want to tell your BLM friend to carefully read the tooltips on Fire/Blizzard III, especially the part regarding Umbral/Astral stacks, because his rotation is bad. There's a very important mechanic change from the I/II level spells, to the III level.

[Rover1983]

I have a few issues with the class so far.

1. The Pets are laughably small and should be bigger.
2. The Pets need to be quicker. They feel too slow and I also feel their cooldowns on abilities need to be lowered.
3. **** Most Important **** Our pets damage needs to both scale with gear and NEEDS to be increased dramatically. I say this because my auto attack with my book hits harder and quicker then my Ifrit pets abilities. A class that focuses on summoning pets to do our bidding should have pets doing MORE damage then us and be doing a lot of it. I literally do AT LEAST quadruple the amount of damage my dps pets do. At 44, I have 4 dots that I use that total around 160ish damage plus my Ruin nuke which is hitting around 90. My Ifrits abilities hit anywhere from 20's-60's. This is a severe problem with the class currently and needs to be addressed.

The issues with the class should not be difficult to fix or improve on but they are very much needed big time.

[Kevee]

I have a few issues with the class so far.

1. The Pets are laughably small and should be bigger.
3. **** Most Important **** Our pets damage needs to both scale with gear and NEEDS to be increased dramatically. I say this because my auto attack with my book hits harder and quicker then my Ifrit pets abilities. A class that focuses on summoning pets to do our bidding should have pets doing MORE damage then us and be doing a lot of it. I literally do AT LEAST quadruple the amount of damage my dps pets do. At 44, I have 4 dots that I use that total around 160ish damage plus my Ruin nuke which is hitting around 90. My Ifrits abilities hit anywhere from 20's-60's. This is a severe problem with the class currently and needs to be addressed.

I agree with 2, but not 1 or 3.

1 is an opinion, 3 you're just wrong. Pets do scale with gear, and Ifrit doesn't hit for that little.

I have yet to experience what you describe; I've only seen BLM outdmg, as well as BRD, which is a support/dps class aswell.
And for every time you put up one of your dots, a BLM nukes the **** out of the target.
Comparing Flare to Fester, which is a CD based spell, that requires you to use another CD to unlock is just silly.
Not to mention that you have to spend at least 4 casts on reapplying your dots before they run out, or you lose dmg as well, in that time you won't do higher dmg, and in that window a BLM can cast both Flare and Fire III.
Again, I have yet to experience what you say, therefor I've hard time accepting your statement

BLM is one of the lowest DPS classes, just fyi. High burst, low DPS.

BRD is probably the only one that is/can out DPS us. They aren't a support class, they're a DPS class.

Yeah, while the BLM is nuking our DoTs are doing sustained damage, and then when they switch to UI their damage goes to **** while we just keep chugging along.


I have yet to find an ACN/SMN that knows how to play besides myself. Most people don't use CDs, don't time Raging Strikes, don't use Aetherflow on CD/pre-load stacks, don't keep DoTs up, don't know when/when not to use Ruin II, don't know when to have DoTs with a high timer so you can AoE, etc. Hell, most ACN don't even know the proper rotation(Btw, you always start Bio II -> Miasma -> Bio. Always.)

Black mage is one of the lowest dps classes?(lol?) You know what put your thoughts into the best dps topic and lets see where that gets you oh right but your the only one who knows how to play summoner right?

Oh you know your rotation? I do that too the rotation for summoner is incredibly easy try playing a monk now thats a technical rotation. Summoner is not a difficult class to play.

Yes, it is. It has been since Beta 3, and OB/Release saw big nerfs(mainly to thunder/UI rotation).
MNK is a very simple class to play. The only thing that's "difficult" about is is the need to move from flanking to behind every other rotation.

The rotation for SMN, and BLM, are the hardest to perfect because of the need to time multiple CDs and DoT animations so you can clip them at the proper time, while also knowing when to use the different ruins so as to use off-gcd abilities so you don't hinder yourself by using one after Ruin I. BLM is the hardest to perfect due to RNG.


Edit again: As an example of very strict timing, take Raging Strikes(and possibly Contagion). When a DoT is used with raging strikes, a normal DoT will not overwrite the one on the target until it completely falls off. You don't want that, but it needs to happen. You need to time your cast/spell animation so the instant it drops off, you're re-applying the normal one.

In addition to this, you need to utilize the unique mechanic of Raging Strikes where DoTs retain the full 20% damage boost over their entire duration, even if the buff has fallen off.

[Spellbinder]

Another thought, that also relates to Scholar is the ability to use commands while casting. Does anyone else find the inability to do so hindering?

[Asiaine]

When I originally thought they would bring summoner, I thought they would not be pets that float behind me all the time. They are acting like an entourage rather than a summon. I had thought they would appear only when I summon them, do the command I wish, and then disappear. For example:

In battle, skill with cooldown of 60 seconds or so, I would hit it, a giant Iffy would appear, do an attack, then disappear.

Is this not okey for how a Summoner job could work? Or is it bad lore-wise ?

(Would also save on me seeing floating monsters everywhere!)

[Superskull85]

When I originally thought they would bring summoner, I thought they would not be pets that float behind me all the time. They are acting like an entourage rather than a summon. I had thought they would appear only when I summon them, do the command I wish, and then disappear. For example:

In battle, skill with cooldown of 60 seconds or so, I would hit it, a giant Iffy would appear, do an attack, then disappear.

Is this not okey for how a Summoner job could work? Or is it bad lore-wise ?

(Would also save on me seeing floating monsters everywhere!)

I don't like that idea. With a caster I can get more damage (and control, casters have a nice knockback) than I would from a one-off 400. Also if pets were not persistent then tank pets are not the greatest.

[Ryuko]

1. I'm okay with egi sizes and appearance. I would, however, like to see them 'increase' in size as the summoner levels up more (past 50). An alternative to increasing the size would be to make them somehow 'brighter'. (Ifrit's flames could be more vibrant, for example, once you reach beyond level 50). The reason I mention this is to go along with the lore of the game while at the same time recognizing a summoner's ability to 'level up'.
2. I think the pets should have more of an important role for a summoner. Right now, their damage is merely supplemental to our main damage as a summoner. Shouldn't it be the other way around? But if it was...
3. We need to have better control over our pets. Letting a pet auto-attack and that being half our job would make our job too easy. Please make it so I have an easier time telling my pet what to do. Please let "Obey" be a constant 'stance' so that I always have the option of telling my pet what to do without having to press the button every time. Let me command my pet while waiting on GCD or casting other spells. Right now, pets are susceptible to AoEs, including instant kills (such as doom). If we need to move our pets, we need to be able to do it on the fly (just like characters can start running immediately to avoid something -- there is a certain amount of lag between telling a pet to move and it actually moving).
4. I agree about Rouse versus Spur. The 'better' ability should have a longer cooldown, ESPECIALLY since PvP will be in this game!
5. We need some sort of way to down adds quickly. As it is now, BLM outdo us with damage because we need to get DoTs up before we can fester something. Fester has a cooldown and requires charges, too. BLM are good on both single targets and adds. We are comparable on single targets but we have a lot of trouble killing adds quickly which is a PROBLEM when they NEED to be killed quickly for some sort of boss mechanic.