(Un)Official Arcanist/Summmoner Feedback Thread

[horaiyo]

Regardless of difficulty, I still think SMN (and frankly, the other "zero RNG" based classes as well) should have some sort of reactive ability or short term buff/cooldown to use to spice things up.

I like this idea, something random (along the lines of a firestarter/thundercloud proc) would shake our rotation up a bit.

[pandabearcat]

mean stuff

But BLM has 1 skill.

Well 2 skills.

I guess you can count thunder as a third.

Basically ruin = fire.

You push fire3 when your button lights up. It is hard to compare rotational complexity with button lighting up reflexes, but I wouldn't really say thats hard either.
You also push thunder3 when your button lights up.

Instead of refreshing dots every 10s of seconds or so, instead you push blizz3 and thunder.

Bard is exactly the same except you only have 1 dot to track.

MNK is exactly the same except instead of ruin you have a cycle of 3 attacks that automatically put your buffs up. You keep up 2 dots.

DRG is the same as monk except you have to actually remember what stance you're in instead of the game coddling you preventing you from doing something wrong. Also its harder to keep your buffs up and you can't put up your DoT immediately.

Its very easy to trivialize any class when you want to talk about it that way, but I don't see the point.

Certain people have certain classes they feel are easier than others. Why does this matter? Are you asking for more complexity? If so, I'm glad to hear your ideas (i still want SMN to have some sort of proc or resource). If your goal isn't to make every (or at least one) class more interesting, more balanced, or more powerful, what is your point in being here?

Please go play your super hard class and leave us alone =)

[Zer0mr]

Summoner rotation is, indeed, the easiest one to perform. I'm not sure about Bard, but summoner is probably the easiest due to the fact that you can brain spamming 2 buttons every ~20 seconds

Get out of here troll. Obviously you can play any DPS class with <4 button rotation, but whats to say that you're doing good DPS? The fact that you have to actually DO something makes the difference between doing DPS and just sitting there with your thumb in your ass.

[Fire-Dragon-DoL]

But BLM has 1 skill.

Well 2 skills.

I guess you can count thunder as a third.

Basically ruin = fire.

You push fire3 when your button lights up. It is hard to compare rotational complexity with button lighting up reflexes, but I wouldn't really say thats hard either.
You also push thunder3 when your button lights up.

Instead of refreshing dots every 10s of seconds or so, instead you push blizz3 and thunder.

Bard is exactly the same except you only have 1 dot to track.

MNK is exactly the same except instead of ruin you have a cycle of 3 attacks that automatically put your buffs up. You keep up 2 dots.

DRG is the same as monk except you have to actually remember what stance you're in instead of the game coddling you preventing you from doing something wrong. Also its harder to keep your buffs up and you can't put up your DoT immediately.

Its very easy to trivialize any class when you want to talk about it that way, but I don't see the point.

Certain people have certain classes they feel are easier than others. Why does this matter? Are you asking for more complexity? If so, I'm glad to hear your ideas (i still want SMN to have some sort of proc or resource). If your goal isn't to make every (or at least one) class more interesting, more balanced, or more powerful, what is your point in being here?

Please go play your super hard class and leave us alone =)

I don't expect a super hard class, I want the difficulty of my class be balanced with the others, actually it's definitely more easy. I have 2 debuffs to keep up which mean 2 spells to cast every 20 seconds "MNK is exactly the same except instead of ruin you have a cycle of 3 attacks that automatically put your buffs up" how can you same is the same, first it's a cycle, second is 3 attacks, third is melee which also involves problem usually applying those.

I apply my debuffs from a ranged comfortable place (notice, I love being ranged for this advantage, but so give me some problems with rotation like BLM do), with no difficulty in re-applying those.

Bard I don't play it but in my opinion is even easier (nothing to do and you can move with all instant, is quite easy to play, infact is the best class in titan fight).

I don't expect to have a super hard class, but with summoner is actually even hard to fail. If you are about to finish mana you cast 3 energy drain. Yea you loose fester which is good dps, but comparing it to what happen if SCH doesn't have aetherflow, there is a huge difference.

It's not that hard to see it, When I see (same gear) 2 bad dps on titan and one is summoner and the other is monk, there is (still) a 50dps difference between the 2, because the summoner can keep up better. Same in coil.

Get out of here troll. Obviously you can pla any DPS class with <4 button rotation, but whats to say that you're doing good DPS? The fact that you have to actually DO something makes the difference between doing DPS and just sitting there with your thumb in your ass.

First who the hell are you to come here and tell me I'm trolling. I'm a good player, I play a lot with my guild (we are to turn 4), my main class is summoner so yes, I'm complaining because my class difficulty is not balanced with other classes.

I want difficulty because the game must challenge me, otherwise developer should have given us a 1-shot button and nothing else. Or we can play an adventure multiplayer point-and-click game, it would have been the same.

I want to be "punished" if I fail hard on my rotation, for example if BLM uses flare at the wrong moment, not only he won't do expected damage, his dps will be completely stuck for 10-15 seconds.

If I fail casting my fester when no debuffs are up, at most I don't do damage, but I have a pet and 3 debuffs up doing dps usually which are much more important than a fester.
Not to mention the fact that "at most" (if you are not brainless) you will cast a fester when there are 2 debuffs up and not 3, not when all are missing (which is a really weird situation).

If the dragoon fail his rotation his dps fell down by 1/2. I don't know about monk, sorry.
As a scholar I must be careful casting debuffs and swapping back to healing otherwise tank dies =P

See the previous answer for additions. I'm here because I want a better class, and by better I don't mean more strong (our class is indeed quite strong!!!), I want a more fun class to play. And SE at least thinks the same about some points, infact they are adding new spells to egis to increase micro-management, which is a great thing.

Have I ever said I want a super hard class? No, I just expect to be harder than it is now. Feels like Paladin used to be in WoW at certain point where you can press 3 buttons on cooldown to do dps and that's all. Lol.

[pandabearcat]

All the classes have extremely simple requirements compared to other mmos (I'll just say WoW I guess).

This game isn't designed to have an extremely complicated rotation (for one thing, every single class only has one resource, mana or mana equivalent, unless you really want to count aetherflows but that doesn't really...count), no procs that are interesting (they're all just, hey, now you can press this button, or passive damage buffs), and no class has a rotation worth mentioning.

They're all virtually identical in design (keep up buffs, keep up dots, press filler), though implementation is slightly different.

In a way WoW is very similar to that now, but at least every class has a unique resource that they interact with meaningfully.

You came to the wrong game if you are looking for complexity in rotations, is what I'm saying.

Now I don't mean to sound like I hate playing the game, rather I enjoy it, but not for the sake of rotational or combat complexity, because thats not really this game's strong point, and unless they drastically overhaul every class in the coming patches I think it will stay this way for some time.

The combat here is based on more unforgiving void zones, more strict dps and gear checks (when everyone can be 90% efficient, the game requires 99% efficiency to pass checks), and esp healer coordination (prequeueing heals, etc) much like vanilla wow where tanks died in 2 hits.

So theres that.

I think we have the same goal here, but you came off a bit heavy handed with your absolutes like smn is the easiest class to play, etc, as if that proves or justifies necessity of change.

You seem to enjoy sch healing, mayhap make that your main for now.

[RegentP]

SMN looks pretty boring and bland, compared to SCH. I mean DRG has the most flash per move, but if we throw out SMN AOE Tri-disaster, bane, and shadow flare. Its hard to notice a SMN. I just feel, when MVP system comes around well be over looked a lot for credit of ability.

[twon25]

Summoner has some issues that need to be addressed, and some bugs that need to be fixed. Ifrit is not worth using over garuda as of this moment. Not really a summoner bug, but Eos on SCH will still cast aoe buffs even when on obey command.

Tri disaster: is not worth casting really. I have used it, but its not a good source of dps, nor is it very useful in the content that ive done. Excluding Coil as i have only done up to turn 2. If you have found a good use for it, by all means, please explain it to me.

Bane: Needs the tooltip fixed, or it needs to do what the tooltip says. If they will leave it at 3 targets, then i feel it should apply all dots and debuffs cast by the smn.

Miasma 2: summoners are casters. I dont like the idea that miasma 2 is like a get away from me move. Running up to a boss to cast this is not fun. It should be changed to maybe be instant cast, but have a longer recast time, and be a ranged aoe.

[twon25]

Enkindle: 5 minute cooldown for avatars aoe. I would be more understanding to this if it actually did really good dmg. But 5 minute cooldown, and you need to burn spur and rouse in order for it to maybe break 1k dmg. This is in DL gear. Not to mention you have to physically move garuda into a herd of enemies in order t do it. It would be nice if garuda Teleported to the target, then cast her aoe. This would make it easier to cast with her. Potency should be increased to maybe 500, or recast time should be decreased to maybe 2 or 3 minutes.

Raging strikes: Not a summoner ability, but used when smn. This buff doesnt apply to pet it looks like. tested on lvl 50 training dummies. dmg was same using spur and rouse without raging strikes, and then using raging strikes, and activating spur and rouse while strikes was on.

[T0rin]

Enkindle: 5 minute cooldown for avatars aoe. I would be more understanding to this if it actually did really good dmg. But 5 minute cooldown, and you need to burn spur and rouse in order for it to maybe break 1k dmg. This is in DL gear. Not to mention you have to physically move garuda into a herd of enemies in order t do it.

I agree, it is pretty weak for an ability you can only cast once every 5 minutes, and it isn't even as good as Flare with Rouse and Spur up, which is pretty shameful.

But regarding needing to have her in melee range to cast it on a group of enemies, what are you talking about? I use it from range all the time.

[twon25]

I will test this again, but it seems like when ive done it, and the boss moves or if i cast it from range , the spell misses. i know garuda's weak aoe spell works at range (90 potency), but i will test enkindle agan.