(Un)Official Arcanist/Summmoner Feedback Thread

[HamHam]

Everyone is completely missing Kevee's point too, btw.

The point is, there has been no change to bane. It works exactly as it has worked before. This is a tooltip change.

So stop raging everywhere. You're making us look bad. You are just as effective as you were last week.

My argument was there is no reason to cap our bane, because it would just put us on equal footing with BLM (which, admittedly, does have the best sustained aoe bar none).

But obviously the devs think otherwise.

Oh well.

Guess you'll have to put your DL gear on your BLM if you want to speedrun WP faster, until the inevitable WP nerf.

You get what I was referring to. BLM can sustain and do aoe dmg faster than a SMN. This is the reason they are preferred to do dungeon speed runs or any other type of speed runs.

[Kevee]

You get what I was referring to. BLM can sustain and do aoe dmg faster than a SMN. This is the reason they are preferred to do dungeon speed runs or any other type of speed runs.

No, BLM is only preferred for 8 minute WPSR. Only when there's consistently 5+ targets. A well-geared run with SMN/BRD will only take 10-11 minutes, and that's because with a SMN you can skip the same trash pack as BLM due to Tri-Disaster.

Everywhere else, SMN is, or should be, preferred. You don't generally see 5+ target pulls elsewhere, because you either use cannons, or do death-runs. If people are preferring BLM right now, it's just because of the WP hype. It's the same thing affecting WARs right now--With their negative hype. They can function just fine in, relatively, all content. The only 2 things they are absolutely barred from is 8-10 minute WPSR and Turn 5. If you ask the community, though, they're **** and should never be used.

[horaiyo]

The cap on bane is unnecessary, especially considering bane requires an aetherflow stack. A blm can do good st and ae damage, but we’re limited to primarily st damage. I don’t think we should be better at ae than a blm, but removing the cap from bane wouldn’t put us over the top while still making us more viable in situations requiring ae damage (speed runs, turn 4, etc.)

And all that said, it really would’ve been nice to know there was a cap in the first place. I’ve been raging at bane ever since I hit 50, thinking that the reason it wasn’t hitting all my targets was because of a ridiculously small radius or because I was misusing it somehow.

[HamHam]

No, BLM is only preferred for 8 minute WPSR. Only when there's consistently 5+ targets. A well-geared run with SMN/BRD will only take 10-11 minutes, and that's because with a SMN you can skip the same trash pack as BLM due to Tri-Disaster.

Everywhere else, SMN is, or should be, preferred. You don't generally see 5+ target pulls elsewhere, because you either use cannons, or do death-runs. If people are preferring BLM right now, it's just because of the WP hype. It's the same thing affecting WARs right now--With their negative hype. They can function just fine in, relatively, all content. The only 2 things they are absolutely barred from is 8-10 minute WPSR and Turn 5. If you ask the community, though, they're **** and should never be used.

As for Tri-Disaster, it can be in part with sleep to hold the mobs, but that's not the point here.

The point I was making is that BLM can dish aoe dmg at a faster pace than a SMN, as I explained, a blm can do Flare (for big dmg) back to back in a short fight, AND still get MP back to continue a fire aoe dmg rotation. Where as SMN can't dish that type of dmg at a fast pace as BLM can.

I have experienced in both BLM and SMN and I can tell you the comparison I made is true.

Now, I noticed that you don't have blm leveled to 50, so it can be hard to understand what I'm saying from that point of view.

[Wolf_Gang]

Wow, I never noticed there was cap before. I guess that explains a lot. I thought mobs simply weren't close enough.

personally, I think Bane shouldn't use an Aetherflow stack and it's range should be increased.

[Sharinar]

if contagion is the reason why bane is consider overpowered in aoe situation. it is a closer solve to not let bane spread the dot time with contagion. lowering the target nummber is unreasonable for aoe situation where the encounter has an enrage. it make bane pointless because it allow to let one or more mob live longer than the rest. lead to longer time for the wave than needed.

[SirDiscoFrog]

That would explain a lot. There are so many times I just thought Bane was not getting everything I wanted to. It would be nice to up the cap a bit though. Maybe to 5 or 6? It should def prioritize monsters without DoTs on them though. I'm more concerned with the egis than the summoner abilities though honestly. I wish the had more punch to them (aesthetically and ability wise). Seeing the differences between the egis and carbuncles side by side does disappoint me.

What I do find wrong about a lot of posts in this thread, are the following:

1. Tri-Disaster is way underrated, especially in WPSR.
2. You don't need Ballad to keep DPS going, it is more a factor of having good companion AoE DPS and a tank who won't put you into situations where you need to waste mana.
3. You don't need Energy Drain to keep DPSing in long boss fights.

So many people dont get how awesome Tri-Disaster can be with Swiftcast, even if its situational. I primarily use it when i notice a tank is not keeping aggro on a whole mob and something goes after a WHM, but i end up needing it in a good amount of dungeons i go in, but only once has anyone noticed it.

Also if you keep up with Aetherflow and are using your stacks/re applying it correctly I dont see how any SMN could run out of mana. I typically dont run out unless I am just not paying attention and I am using Ruin II instead of Ruin I as a filler spell. I dont see SMN AoE dmg as being as bad as it seems people are saying. SMN do things better over time and are more mobile(which is especially helpful in fights like the Taulard fight where you have to constantly be dodging). BLM have more bursty AoE. Just because one is faster doesnt mean the other is not viable. I personally dont mind this trade off, I just want the egis to get some more love.

[Kevee]

as I explained, a blm can do Flare (for big dmg) back to back in a short fight, AND still get MP back to continue a fire aoe dmg rotation. Where as SMN can't dish that type of dmg at a fast pace as BLM can.

No, they can't. If you start with Flare(why would you ever do that?), it's a hard 4s Cast -> Convert+Swiftcast -> Flare -> Transpose -> Pot -> Blizzard III(Wait for MP tick) -> Fire III -> Fire II. That's not fast at all. You have, alone, up to a ~9s downtime between using Transpose and casting Fire III before you can go back to Fire II. Global timer right before ->Tranpose+Pot -> 2s Later MP tick(Only UI1)-> Blizzard III -> Full MP -> Fire III -> Fire II. You shouldn't really use Double Flare because of how slow it is(exception is the END of a trash pack), and certainly don't start Flare->Flare.

but we’re limited to primarily st damage. I don’t think we should be better at ae than a blm, but removing the cap from bane wouldn’t put us over the top while still making us more viable in situations requiring ae damage (speed runs, turn 4, etc.)

We're not limited to primarily ST damage.

It would put our AoE above everyone else because it would be pretty much equivalent to our 2-4 target DPS, which is leagues better than anyone else. The more targets, the closer people would come to us(due to thunder spam not being viable with high targets), and our pet being primarily ST. We would still be higher, however.

Don't even mention turn 4, because SMN is hands down the best job for that fight, and we do more effective AoE than anyone else due to Miasma II+Disease. Fyi, Shadow Flare slow works on the ants + rooks, hits knights, we can bane to knights without hurting ourselves, and Disease halves the healing the ants do to themselves.



Also, I'm done after this post, in this topic, talking about bane and AoE. Go ahead, get us buffed. Make Bane hit all targets. We'll be FoTM and then nerfed, which will most likely effect our ST and 2-4 target. I don't need to be the best at everything. We're already great ST(beaten only by the best MNKs, or BLMs with absurdly good RNG in their favor), highest 2-4 target DPS, and second on 5+ targets. On top of this, we have some of the BEST utility a DPS can ask for. We're in a great spot.

It goes to show how little you know about BLM.

I never said you start with flare. Come on, get your head out of the sand. I'm not making an argument to make summoner look bad. I'm making an argument to make SMN better. But to each his own.

It goes to show that you don't understand what I posted, because regardless of where you double flare it takes a lot of time to do. Not to mention the multiple "Why would you start that way?" comments.

[Apenutt]

My only quip with Bane is 5yalms from hit target... sigh such a tiny area, yes I would love if there as not a cap and yes if the effect cast to uninfected mobs that did not already get hit with prior Bane spread. 3 is kinda silly bit I can live with that, I'm having a hard time living with 5yalm spread. Being at range I often think mobs are close enough and waste a stack of Aetherflow casting bane and it only hits a single target (makes me so frustrated).
I will have to disagree with the Dev stating Garud'a add of time to BIO2 and Miasma up to 30 seconds making bane over powered is a crock of shit. A whole extra 5seconds to BIO2 and 7seconds to Miasma, this does not make overpowered at all. Just helps with being able to set up the next restack of DoTs, nothing more. I don't even think I've seen it affect Bio's timer, if so obviously not enough to matter.

Anyhoo, yes more time spent on SMN being, well, a SUMMONER and less of a mage with a pet (ie. almost beastmaster-esk). Give WAR a pet and guess what you have a BST.
With my SMN I feel we are very gimp in Burst damage, SMN does not put out fast instant damage as other classes and being completely reliant on DoTs and the fact that those DoTs need to stick in order for Bane to be useful or spread at all to other mobs because of the tiny 5yalms of effect. I find myself rarely using Bane now because it sucks so badly, and Fester gets used more often to take down single targets within my Shadowflare (which is only available at lvl50). I rarely run out of Mana with some long drawn out boss fights I get close, when having to recast BIO2 or Miasma cause it didn't stick (loosing DPS at this point). Yes SMN has the ability to still do damage on the run where BLM gets Scathe only.
So with Aetherflow allowing 3 casts of a choice of 3 spells that use Aetherflow stacks limits SMN a lot. So I guess I'm not understanding how anyone thinks SMN is over powered in any fashion? To me its pretty balanced yet could use some kind of Burst damage over Ruin2 which can drain the hell out of your mana pool when trying to Burn the end of a Boss' or mobs' life.

[xxalucard]

Don't even mention turn 4, because SMN is hands down the best job for that fight, and we do more effective AoE than anyone else due to Miasma II+Disease. Fyi, Shadow Flare slow works on the ants + rooks, hits knights, we can bane to knights without hurting ourselves, and Disease halves the healing the ants do to themselves.

This is wrong. When you bane to a knight you do take ~1k+ damage (though the dots themselves, once bane'd, don't hurt you, and shadow flare isn't reflected)

Also, I'm done after this post, in this topic, talking about bane and AoE. Go ahead, get us buffed. Make Bane hit all targets. We'll be FoTM and then nerfed, which will most likely effect our ST and 2-4 target. I don't need to be the best at everything.

I still don't see how hitting a few more targets (how many are gonna be perfectly squeezed into a 5 yalm radius?) will make us the best at everything.