(Un)Official Arcanist/Summmoner Feedback Thread

[Trihuuger]

Kevee you appear to be arguing like you've got hard numbers to backup your one-man crusade as to why this is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Frankly I'd love to have a parser that works, but currently to the best of my knowledge (and anyone else's) this doesn't exist for DoT's. Combat log limitations and all that.

And lol... Are you familiar with a "true" WPSR? It sure as hell doesn't involve a summoner. The party is BLM, WHM, PLD, and BRD. The WHM probably out-damages SMN's in these setups as well, nor could you really bring a SMN as the ramp up time is far too long, etc etc. If you're saying DoT's have enough time to tick and therefore "will" out-damage instead of simply "can," please watch a few video's of people running with that party above. DoT's wouldn't tick for even half duration as the mobs would be 1/2 dead by the time everything was fully rolling. The DoT's might have a chance to fully tick if the SMN is the AoE lol... It's that bad.

Please do not misunderstand my stance on mass AoE: It needs caps. Because I lack experience with any other game that's done so, I'm going to cite WoW's way of doing it where one spell could do so much damage, regardless of how many things it was hitting. CURRENTLY this doesn't exist and we have a HUGE discrepancy between "cleave" DPS vs mass AoE. I'm all about classes maintaining flavor in terms of how they accomplish goals, but I draw the line when particular make-ups dwarf everything else by a tremendous margin. In the instance of those WPSR's, they can clear that place almost 5 minutes faster than any other combination.

Frankly our cleave DPS is probably too high. I'd much rather have that reduced in some fashion than this target limit in the name of "fair is fair."

[T0rin]

And lol... Are you familiar with a "true" WPSR? It sure as hell doesn't involve a summoner. The party is BLM, WHM, PLD, and BRD. The WHM probably out-damages SMN's in these setups as well, nor could you really bring a SMN as the ramp up time is far too long, etc etc. If you're saying DoT's have enough time to tick and therefore "will" out-damage instead of simply "can," please watch a few video's of people running with that party above. DoT's wouldn't tick for even half duration as the mobs would be 1/2 dead by the time everything was fully rolling. The DoT's might have a chance to fully tick if the SMN is the AoE lol... It's that bad.

This, I think is the only legitimate reason why SMN could get an uncapped target Bane and have it legitimized. Right now, in a PLD+WHM+BRD+BLM group, it takes ~25 seconds to down everything. If you swapped out the BLM for an SMN, the only way you could maintain those times is if you had an uncapped Bane, so you could hit 7-10 targets at once. You have just enough time to get the vast majority of your DoT out by teh time everything is dead, if you have a WHM casting Holy. As is, all you can do is apply 90% dot damage to 4 targets, and maybe 40% dot damage to 4 more. This is just sub-par compared to BLM, which hits everything.

But, if you uncapped Bane to make SMN on par with BLM in short term AoE dps, then you'd end up with a situation where SMN can easily out-damage BLM in situations where everything doesn't die in 25 seconds or less.

Plus, it would give SMN a sizable AoE dps advantage before the end-game, where BLM hasn't ramped up in power yet. (mainly lack of Flare)

In the vast majority of situations (sub-9 min WPSRs are NOT the norm by any means), the average WPSR is more in the 10-11 min range, and AoE encounters last long enough that the line between BLM and SMN in those groups is more easily blurred. But, when you only have a 25 second window to do your damage, and you require 5 seconds of ramp-up time followed by 20-25 seconds of DoT time, SMN is simply outclassed by BLM's ability to have peak DPS practically from the start. (after Fire 3 hits)

Sadly, the most potential in WPSRs comes from BRD/WHM combo, and there is finite group comp potential when you HAVE to build around that.