(Un)Official Arcanist/Summmoner Feedback Thread

[Dixa]

part 1

there is no logical reason for tri-disaster to be 30 potency since it does not have a secondary effect, and every other aoe in the game is at least 100 potency. hell, bards have a 100 potency aoe with no cooldown that applies the very same debuff as eye for an eye (-10% dmg for 20s).

summoner losing access to a 5th dot in aero also makes no sense really since scholars still have access to thunder from thaumaturge. let summoner use conjurer cross class abilities (which is basically a weak protect that paladins and scholars also sport and aero) to add a 5th dot to the rotation, adding complexity that all dot classes should have.

for the above to work, the debuff limit needs to be changed. it's not likely technically possible to completely remove it, but it needs to be closer to 100 debuff slots even if we can't see them under the target health bars. nothing like dropping 3 dots on svara, hitting fester and having it hit for....zero damage. this is unacceptable.

[Dixa]

part 2

remove the aetherflow mechanic from fester and bane. these abilities have cooldowns, this alone prevents them from being spammed. aetherflow mechanic should only be for energy drain. give them mana costs.

increase the base potency of bio, bio 2 and miasma 1 to 50 each. increase the potency of miasma 2 to 30. increase the potency of shadow flare to 50. increase the potency of ruin to 100.

rework eye for an eye into a damage shield that deals damage when struck and grants emnity to the buffed target. the current debuff it provides is duplicated by bards on an aoe with no cooldown making it an entirely redundant and useless ability.

change the enkindle cooldown to 20s. add it to the aetherflow mechanic.

that is my feedback.

[Seraphi]

My BLM friend roflstomps me in dmg, he casts Flare instead of the last Fire III. This is his rotation: Blizzard III (until 3 stacks)->Transpose->Fire III->Flare->transpose. Repeat. He kills EVERYTHING while leaving me in the dust, TRYING to catch up :P its not uncommon that his flare hits for 1k either >_> he even laughed when Ifrit-egi unleashed his almighty Inferno which did so little dmg compared to his Flare ._. Sad panda
Right and don't forget that WHM has Holy with a 240p + stun. I feel sad when a WHM can clear trash mobs faster than me ='(

Stop comparing classes with "how fast he kills trash mobs compared to me". While nuking trash mobs into the ground is fun, it's mostly trivial content and shouldn't be used as precedence.

That said, numbers aren't really that well known at this time, so it's mostly all speculation/theorycraft right now and nothing empirical. As it stands, it's mostly obvious stuff. BLM has more burst, SMN has more reliable sustained DPS. This is something you should accept as a DoT class.

Also, you might want to tell your BLM friend to carefully read the tooltips on Fire/Blizzard III, especially the part regarding Umbral/Astral stacks, because his rotation is bad. There's a very important mechanic change from the I/II level spells, to the III level.

[HiirNoivl]

There are 3 reasons why people are having trouble with SMN dps. I'll start with the #1 reason and move on to the rest.

#1) Improper DoT rotations. DoTs have a cast time, a recast time, and an expiration date. That's a lot of time to be not-doing-damage. Yet I continually see SMNs using bio and Virus first during a battle. These are some of the most shortlived DoTs and are guaranteed to drop off while you're casting something else. And who knows when you're going to cast again? You might have to move, or something might get interrupted. Meantime, you're not doing ANY damage!

Your rotations should start out with Shadow Flare which should ALWAYS be up (30s). Then stack Bio II (also 30s) and Miasma (24s) and Tridisaster (20s) THEN toss your Instant Casts when you have a chance. That's at least 20s with 4 strong DoTs on it. Even if you cast nothing after this you will be dealing 125 damage for at least 20s per tick.

#2) Improper Egi management. Why don't people use Rouse or Spur? These should always be on cool down unless your egi is just... not attacking for some reason. Sustain should always stay up on the egi. Your egi dies? It happens. So long as your DoTs are up, recast the thing. And this time, Place it somewhere it won't get hurt.

3) Improper gear/stats -- If you want to be a scholar... be a scholar. If you want to play both, too bad. If you're stacking mind for SCH/WHM and then switch over to SMN, don't blame the class for your DPS problems.

[nimuniverse]

You are a bit off on rotation. First starting with shadow flare is not good unless your tank is staying at the same place. Most of the instances I have been in, tank pull with their range skill and bring back mob. When tank and mob are coming in. I am already hitting bio II and Misama. Also Tri-disaster is a waste, low potency with bind but the moment mob take damage, bind is gone. I normally go Bio II, Misama, Bio, Bane (if multiple), Misama II, Virus, Raging Strike, Fester, Thunder, Ruin II, Rouse, Spur, Ruin II, Fester, Aetherflow. During Bio's GCD, I have already run up to mob for Misama II. Virus, Raging Strike and Fester are also done on the way to and back from mob. I don't have Shadow Flare yet but I probably would be casting it between Bio and Thunder. I don't use Ruin since it's same damage as Ruin II but Ruin II is instant so I can save some time. And since SMN don't have mp issues. I do use Ruin on bosses though depending on mp.

BTW, damn. You have 50 on every job! Nice work (I am gonna assume 1.0 player?). Also I agree that people are having trouble because they don't understand the class's mechanic, not wear proper gear or have stats and assist egi. But pet control should be better in the sense that we should be able to control them while casting our own spell. If it is not the case then I learn and do with what I have. Just need to utilize the class effectively.

[Aqualisk]

Why would you not Raging Strikes first? Your DoT's snapshot your damage and you're much better off applying them first and then using Garuda pet to lengthen the duration of your boosted DoT's.

[Dixa]

Why would you not Raging Strikes first? Your DoT's snapshot your damage and you're much better off applying them first and then using Garuda pet to lengthen the duration of your boosted DoT's.

this.

raging strikes. longest dots cast first> shortest dots cast last. use the dot extender from your caster pet. now you can do other crap for 30 seconds while you have 4 (if you don't have thunder YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG) or more dots running at +20%. should actually give you enough time to fester at least once with +20% as well.

can summoner use the 20% dmg buff from 34 lancer too? i know bards can, and they stack for +40% if used together. (ideally better to use every 60s to go with the dot extending pet ability imo)

as for who kills mobs the fastest while leveling - ifrit egi + dps chocobo + 3 dots + fester = nearly instantly dead mob. i've not seen anything kill the world trash as fast as i can, even those also using a dps chocobo.

[nimuniverse]

Because that way I can get 2 Fester and 4 Ruins II in with Raging Strike. If I do at the beginning, I don't get 2 Fester, only get one. But you have a point. There is the math question, which does more dmg (dots with raging strike or two festers + 2 ruins). For garuda, it's unrealiable on when she applies. Are you using obey and telling pet to use it yourself? On ps3, micro managing pet that way became really tough with your skill rotations kicked in. Imagine having to do wind blade, shockwave, aerial blast etc manually along with your spells. I will take any tips on that. Thanks.

In regard to killing world's trash, even without chocobo, 3 dots + fester + ruin II = mob pretty dead. I actually don't even bother killing mob. I cast 3 dots, fester and move on next mob. By the time i get to second dot, first mob is dead from egi and coming to get 2nd mob.

[HiirNoivl]

You are a bit off on rotation. First starting with shadow flare is not good unless your tank is staying at the same place. Most of the instances I have been in, tank pull with their range skill and bring back mob. When tank and mob are coming in. I am already hitting bio II and Misama. Also Tri-disaster is a waste, low potency with bind but the moment mob take damage, bind is gone. I normally go Bio II, Misama, Bio, Bane (if multiple), Misama II, Virus, Raging Strike, Fester, Thunder, Ruin II, Rouse, Spur, Ruin II, Fester, Aetherflow. During Bio's GCD, I have already run up to mob for Misama II. Virus, Raging Strike and Fester are also done on the way to and back from mob. I don't have Shadow Flare yet but I probably would be casting it between Bio and Thunder. I don't use Ruin since it's same damage as Ruin II but Ruin II is instant so I can save some time. And since SMN don't have mp issues. I do use Ruin on bosses though depending on mp.

BTW, damn. You have 50 on every job! Nice work (I am gonna assume 1.0 player?). Also I agree that people are having trouble because they don't understand the class's mechanic, not wear proper gear or have stats and assist egi. But pet control should be better in the sense that we should be able to control them while casting our own spell. If it is not the case then I learn and do with what I have. Just need to utilize the class effectively.

Yeah 1.0 player. SMN is new to everyone and I appreciate the extra feedback. I'll be adding Raging Strikes to my bar now.

You see, SMN DPS can be made higher with knowlege! When it comes to Tri Disaster Bind is not the point. The point is stacking Damage for the longest period possible. Short period DoTs are stressful because you have to keep reapplying them to maintain damage. Starting with Tri disaster and all means you have 20s-30s to do what you need to do (dodge, re position run away, whatever) before you even have to think about your damage dropping off. You have 20 secs to add a Bio or Virus or a Fester or a Bane Or play around with your Egi.

[nimuniverse]

I agree tri-disaster's point in solo, but in instances especially with paladin, you really don't need to readjust position assuming paladin uses flash. But yes tri-disaster is useful to make mob stay in same place. I would normally would cast tri-disaster (if i do) after all dots spread on mob, meaning after Bane. I see that Bane breaks bind since one of the DoT apply initial damage. (I may be wrong on this, will test again).