(Un)Official Arcanist/Summmoner Feedback Thread

[pandabearcat]

mean stuff

But BLM has 1 skill.

Well 2 skills.

I guess you can count thunder as a third.

Basically ruin = fire.

You push fire3 when your button lights up. It is hard to compare rotational complexity with button lighting up reflexes, but I wouldn't really say thats hard either.
You also push thunder3 when your button lights up.

Instead of refreshing dots every 10s of seconds or so, instead you push blizz3 and thunder.

Bard is exactly the same except you only have 1 dot to track.

MNK is exactly the same except instead of ruin you have a cycle of 3 attacks that automatically put your buffs up. You keep up 2 dots.

DRG is the same as monk except you have to actually remember what stance you're in instead of the game coddling you preventing you from doing something wrong. Also its harder to keep your buffs up and you can't put up your DoT immediately.

Its very easy to trivialize any class when you want to talk about it that way, but I don't see the point.

Certain people have certain classes they feel are easier than others. Why does this matter? Are you asking for more complexity? If so, I'm glad to hear your ideas (i still want SMN to have some sort of proc or resource). If your goal isn't to make every (or at least one) class more interesting, more balanced, or more powerful, what is your point in being here?

Please go play your super hard class and leave us alone =)

[pandabearcat]

All the classes have extremely simple requirements compared to other mmos (I'll just say WoW I guess).

This game isn't designed to have an extremely complicated rotation (for one thing, every single class only has one resource, mana or mana equivalent, unless you really want to count aetherflows but that doesn't really...count), no procs that are interesting (they're all just, hey, now you can press this button, or passive damage buffs), and no class has a rotation worth mentioning.

They're all virtually identical in design (keep up buffs, keep up dots, press filler), though implementation is slightly different.

In a way WoW is very similar to that now, but at least every class has a unique resource that they interact with meaningfully.

You came to the wrong game if you are looking for complexity in rotations, is what I'm saying.

Now I don't mean to sound like I hate playing the game, rather I enjoy it, but not for the sake of rotational or combat complexity, because thats not really this game's strong point, and unless they drastically overhaul every class in the coming patches I think it will stay this way for some time.

The combat here is based on more unforgiving void zones, more strict dps and gear checks (when everyone can be 90% efficient, the game requires 99% efficiency to pass checks), and esp healer coordination (prequeueing heals, etc) much like vanilla wow where tanks died in 2 hits.

So theres that.

I think we have the same goal here, but you came off a bit heavy handed with your absolutes like smn is the easiest class to play, etc, as if that proves or justifies necessity of change.

You seem to enjoy sch healing, mayhap make that your main for now.

[Fire-Dragon-DoL]

Thanks for clarification, I do prefer conversation tones in this way.
Anyway, aetherflow is a secondary resource actually, the problem is that on summoner not used: for example on sch you have to choose between energy drain, shield and lustrade. Taking out energy drain which is available to summoner too, the choice between the shield and lustrate is indeed hard in any case (aoe damage reduction or flat heal on tank, instant and 0 mana cost!!!!), that feel really interesting, I cast a shield I know I must be careful because if there is a mountain buster (titan) as the next attack and that was my last aetherflow charge (even if I have the spell to refresh charges), I may not have enough time to save the tank. That's not a punishment, that's a wipe directly :P

With the summoner, worst thing can happen is that you can go out of mana (which means you don't watch your mana bar because if you stop casting thunder and shadow flare, with aetherflow you'll break even).
Yea is bad, but considering you have also energy drain, is something that won't happen easily.

I expect a bit more "care" in aetherflow management (or increase the required pet management, it's still ok, why on earth the summoner doesn't have an aetherflow skill that interact with the egi? That should be a default one because it merges the arcanist with the summoner).

Second thing, I'm not asking for insane rotations on summoner too but for example (even if I hate this) considering we are dot-based, give us an additional filler near ruin that works in this way: cast a spell that deals "low" damage (75% of ruin damage, with cast time) and apply a debuff for 3 seconds (same cost of mana as ruin), this debuff does nothing BUT if you cast ruin on the target (before it expires), it will get 50% more damage from ruin, so you'll come up with a +25% damage on ruin in this way. What happen in this way? Well, you have to do some calculations, for example before your debuffs are ending, it may be more useful to cast 2 ruins instead of the debuff because you can come up with a ruin + spell-that-apply-debuff and waste 25% dps in this way because you have to stop rotation and recast debuffs. Same against titan for example, if you don't know the rotation you will actively loose part of your dps because you don't know which is the right moment to cast 2 ruins consecutively or alternated.

Pretty straightforward, won't KILL your dps if you fail, will still punish you.
And I feel bad when I say this because I want to see a summoner and not a dotter... :\

In the end, SCH:
SCH is a really nice class and I love it, much more interesting (design wise) than the summoner. However, SE decided (worst decision) that the marks (myth) are 300 per week, not retroactive so you are FORCED to stick with your main class (that's the truth). they could have just done a "cumulative" thing like every week you play every other class can get + 300 (which you can spend only for pieces of that class) and that would have solved everything. But NO, you are forced to play one class in this way.
Not to mention the fact that I have 30 INT on attributes and my SCH can't have 30 MND because someone decided that way (now the problem is only for SMN/SCH, once more job will come out, this problem will be much more real).

I hope SE will fix a lot of these things (but I'm sure they won't fix the summoner in any case, just tweak something), but if I have to stick for one year with my filler RUIN, well, this game will be a filler for all those coming out in March.
And believe me, I feel bad for this because encounters are well designed in this game (usually, Coil 1 is not that good).

[RegentP]

SMN looks pretty boring and bland, compared to SCH. I mean DRG has the most flash per move, but if we throw out SMN AOE Tri-disaster, bane, and shadow flare. Its hard to notice a SMN. I just feel, when MVP system comes around well be over looked a lot for credit of ability.

[twon25]

Enkindle: 5 minute cooldown for avatars aoe. I would be more understanding to this if it actually did really good dmg. But 5 minute cooldown, and you need to burn spur and rouse in order for it to maybe break 1k dmg. This is in DL gear. Not to mention you have to physically move garuda into a herd of enemies in order t do it. It would be nice if garuda Teleported to the target, then cast her aoe. This would make it easier to cast with her. Potency should be increased to maybe 500, or recast time should be decreased to maybe 2 or 3 minutes.

Raging strikes: Not a summoner ability, but used when smn. This buff doesnt apply to pet it looks like. tested on lvl 50 training dummies. dmg was same using spur and rouse without raging strikes, and then using raging strikes, and activating spur and rouse while strikes was on.

[T0rin]

Enkindle: 5 minute cooldown for avatars aoe. I would be more understanding to this if it actually did really good dmg. But 5 minute cooldown, and you need to burn spur and rouse in order for it to maybe break 1k dmg. This is in DL gear. Not to mention you have to physically move garuda into a herd of enemies in order t do it.

I agree, it is pretty weak for an ability you can only cast once every 5 minutes, and it isn't even as good as Flare with Rouse and Spur up, which is pretty shameful.

But regarding needing to have her in melee range to cast it on a group of enemies, what are you talking about? I use it from range all the time.

[twon25]

I will test this again, but it seems like when ive done it, and the boss moves or if i cast it from range , the spell misses. i know garuda's weak aoe spell works at range (90 potency), but i will test enkindle agan.

[NeonC]

I actually agree with you Fire Dragon, but I was making a similar argument for Bards. Like other posters have alluded to, and as I have done, you might just want to switch to Scholar. I play Bard in coil for my FC but anything else at the moment I much prefer running as Scholar. Though I feel Summoner is very interesting and hopefully will be expanded in the abilities and focus of the pet (fingers crossed)

Edit: Yes it is a shame about the Myth gear as well, I am in the same boat. All my Myth goes to my Bard which is being depended on while any healer allegen gear we get is divided between our whm's :/ Only about 3 more myth pieces and I can start to gear my Scholar though.

[Zaresin]

You know, melting things on summoner is fun (if I am actually melting things can't really tell cause my dot Damage doesn't show). I just find the class utterly boring. I don't channel my spells through the pet which I thought we would do when I first read about the game. I can't tell what damage is actually mine besides the damage from ruin (utterly laughable) cause it doesn't show the tick damage. If it doesn't show what my dots are doing, that gives the impression to me that I'm not doing much damaged. Impression is everything. Ifrit is useless most the time. The UI for the pet is garbage. I can't tell the pet to do something without risking it blowing every cd and going out of steady. You know after the fiasco that 1.0 turned out to be, you would think you would have learned not to send out systems like the pet system without actually making sure everything worked. Or do you just like reminding people of the problems 1.0 had?

[Madoka]

The DoT ticks show. Every 3 seconds