(Un)Official Arcanist/Summmoner Feedback Thread

[atomicdeath]

I believe the job should not have been named summoner. The summons are an abomination. The class should have been called elementalist. With a real summoner to be released at a later date.

The class is useful for soloing etc. But for a party situation i will be using something else.

The fact that the summoner focus' more on DoT's than the summons pretty much kills the appeal of the job. And with so few options in summons available, makes it even more limited. What are they really gonna do when the level cap raises? at lvl 75 you will have 5 elementals to choose from? Disgusting.

[azethoth]

While I posted my own thread, as I wanted a canvas to paint on. I thought I would put my feed back here too.

Summoner is a great Job, love playing it. Has great utility and good dps, when I am not screwing up my rotation.
However there are things that should and dare I say need to be changed.

First off, it is far too difficult to keep track of the dots. That light green almost white count down does not help in the slightest. That color blends into all surroundings.
Either pick a different color, light a dark red, and or give us the ability to only see our own debuffs,dots on the mob. Preferably the latter.

Secondly, summoner dots need to not be counted as a debuff, except for the debuff effect of say malais. As it is summoner's dots get rolled off the mob once debuffs exceed 30 I belive. Our dots should never be rolled off, that is how we do damage. Given that Shadow Flare counts as a buff on us, you could relocate the dot effects to our buff bars. That would allow us to not only easily keep track of them but also prevent them from rolling off the mob.
Should that not be viable a "dot" bar for mobs would work as well so that they still count as attacks but cannot be rolled off. Bottom line though is keeping track of dots and them rolling off is crippling summoners.

Ruin and Ruin II. While I understand our class relies on our pets for some of our dps, that does not warrant ruin being only 80 potency. 80 potency for the mana cost is just terrible. Given that scathe for THM/BLM is 100 potency we should get at least that, but I would argue 150, since that would put it on par with Blizzard I.

Bio,Malais,Bio II. From what I can see from training dummies, Bio with potency 40 does less damage per tic than Bio II and Malais with potency 35. Is this intentional, or a bug? I would even argue bumping dot potency to 45 for the primary 3, but I do not have the numbers to back up if that would push summoners over the top or not.

Tri-Disaster. This skill is so bad I cannot understand its existence. 40 damage for 3 second cast on an encounter with a bind effect? Really? Blizzard II does more at level 18, than this skill ever does at lvl 50. Why is this skill's potency so low? I have only had use of it once, and that was today, when the party had a mess up. I would honestly be better off hitting a mob with my book than even having this on my hot bar.

Bane, great skill, but so easily wasted. It is not often that it hits all the mobs, and being at range it is hard to tell if they are within range. Example. On Garuda normal. Bane is incapable of hitting all of the feathers that she drops around herself, even though they all spawn in the same place.

Burst dps. I don't expect summoners to be the burst of the BLM. However, we lack very much in any capacity to do this. The demon wall and the feathers on Garuda are good examples of this. Those feathers and the bees need to die asap. However summoners are not the greatest party member for these tasks. All we have is maybe a Bane depending on the situation, Energy drain, Bio(not really) and Ruin II(80 potency 173 mana). But with the limited Aether stacks, make Energy Drain hard to rely on for burst and Fester needs prep to do its thing.

Cross Class skills. As a summoner we can only draw from THM and Archer. With this pool there are only 3 useful skills out of a total of 5 possible cross skills. Thunder, Raging Strikes, and Swift Cast. At 3 minute cool down raging strikes is not that useful to us, given that we are mostly dot based. Thunder is amazing as is Swift Cast for pet summon and Ressurect. But Sure Cast is pretty useless. The agro dump may be useful but I have yet to level archer to 32 to get it.
I would actually argue that they should pull from THM and CNJ like scholar. Aero is better than raging strikes any day.

Enkindle. I would argue that the cool down on this is far too long at 5 minutes. I would think 3 would be reasonable.

Commanding the pets to switch target takes far to long. It takes on average 2 seconds for the pet to start to engage the new target, more so if it is ifrit or titan.

Like I said, love this Job, the utility it offers a party is amazing. Yet it suffers from system issues.

[azethoth]

I just did a bit of testing.

ACN lvl 50 Ifrit Tome
INT-387
Determination-291
Crit 386
Ruin II-crit 210 normal 145-160
Energy drain- Cirt 406,Normal 270-290
Shadow Flare 65-77
Dots-Bio,Bio2,Miasma,Thunder,Aero
Dot tick range 314-380 middle range of 340-355
Dot tick range with raging strikes(180s) 380-405
Dot tick range with raging strikes(180s) + internal release(60s) 414-487
Emerald Caryb Auto attack 130-145 crit 213


SMN LVL 50 Ifrit Tome
Int 394
Determination 290
Crit 415
Ruin II-151-160 crit 230
Energy Drain-282-303 crit 440
Fester-580-600 crit 900-1000
Shadow Flare-65-77
Tri-Disaster(lul)-57-60 crit 81
Dots-Bio,BioII,Miasma,Thunder
Dot tick range-285-320 middle range 315 High of 347(crit probably)
Dot tick range with raging strikes(180s) -340-386
Garuda Auto Attack-148-162 crit 250

There is not a whole lot different. Granted fester is amazing. Best thing about summoner, but as a whole the damage remains about the same, even with less int on the acn. I still love the class of course, but a bit of a disappointment really.

[Ambacht]

I commend you for you hard work and research. Finnaly someone who's taking things seriously.
I too feel there is something is currently missing andbthe fact that summoners feel misplaced.
I agree it was an error to not add summoners to beta testing and were not properly tested.
Although I'm a big fan of summoners and love to see some big changes for them, while not making their summons huge I'd love to see the summons getting a bigger role.
But I'd be happy with an slightly scaled Egi, not to mention the dmg your Egi's do is minor at best.
Isn't it optional to just scale down our skills a bit and tune up our summons so that the dps output won't change but the summon will be our main source of dps?
That would be a decent temporarily solution, but really eventually Square Enix will have to agree that the job will need quite allot of changes and fine tuning.

[Sygmaelle]

Hello, is there a spreadsheet somewhere notifyin what would be the best in slots items to take ?

Rollin a 2nd toon atm which is a lovely summoner and I'd like to know that, thanks !

[Kevee]

So a person in my FC confirmed my suspicions.


Pets don't get benefit from food.


I knew pets didn't get benefits from INT pots if you summoned them during the buff, but we've been trying to figure out the accuracy cap for pets.

442 is ~99-99.5% accuracy for pets(on turn 5). This is my personal accuracy and test.

Person in FC was at 423. Pet parsed around 90% accuracy. They used Stuffed Cabbage and sat at 444 accuracy.

Then they summoned the pet.

It still missed the same % as before. It still had ~90% accuracy.

So it seems pets do not get any food buffs, even if you summon them afterwards.


So while trying to test how much accuracy is needed, we found this unfortunate bug.

At least, I hope it's a bug.


Spread the word!

[Kevee]

So a person in my FC confirmed my suspicions.


Pets don't get benefit from food.


I knew pets didn't get benefits from INT pots if you summoned them during the buff, but we've been trying to figure out the accuracy cap for pets.

442 is ~99-99.5% accuracy for pets(on turn 5). This is my personal accuracy and test.

Person in FC was at 423. Pet parsed around 90% accuracy. They used Stuffed Cabbage and sat at 444 accuracy.

Then they summoned the pet.

It still missed the same % as before. It still had ~90% accuracy.

So it seems pets do not get any food buffs, even if you summon them afterwards.


So while trying to test how much accuracy is needed, we found this unfortunate bug.

At least, I hope it's a bug.


Spread the word!

I have to agree with Tertatos. No one is complaining that Black Mage has superior AOE damage. The problem is every ranged DPS class a reliable area attack that hits all targets except summoner.

Tri-Disaster, Miasma II, Shadow Flare, Pet AoE skills. Shadow Flare has an added(and very useful) bonus of permanent slow. Miasma II applies Disease which is VERY helpful on Turn 4.

Guys, let's not let this non-change to bane overshadow some bigger issues. Personally, our AoE is "fine." We're great at turn 4, and the only time we can't AoE similar to a BLM is during the huge pulls in WP. That's it--And even then, we aren't too far behind. Yes, we can't ever possibly match 2x Flare, but that's a gimmick specifically associated with these big pulls and uses a CD. We're also vastly superior to anyone else on 2-4 targets.

Also, from what I have observed, Bane resetting a Contagion DoT has been fixed.
They knew about it from my thread:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...5-proc-chance.

And I haven't noticed it since that last bigger hotfix patch.

The only thing that needs to change, imo, is that Bane needs a priority for who the DoTs get spread to. It should prioritize targets that don't have the DoTs on them.




I have a thought that, maybe, pets don't get affected by materia, either. That may be why I see 100% accuracy, but my pet sees ~99-99.5%(-12 acc on belt would put my pet at 430 accuracy). I'll try to test this Monday. Already we know Food doesn't work with pets, which means we're at a disadvantage compared to everyone else(~20-25% of our DPS not getting food contribution), but it can also be a bigger issue of Materia having less of a value.

[Spellbinder]

Tri-Disaster, Miasma II, Shadow Flare, Pet AoE skills. Shadow Flare has an added(and very useful) bonus of permanent slow. Miasma II applies Disease which is VERY helpful on Turn 4.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on what can be considered reliable area attack damage.

[Kevee]

Does anyone have any non-Bane related feedback?

So a person in my FC confirmed my suspicions.


Pets don't get benefit from food.


I knew pets didn't get benefits from INT pots if you summoned them during the buff, but we've been trying to figure out the accuracy cap for pets.

442 is ~99-99.5% accuracy for pets(on turn 5). This is my personal accuracy and test.

Person in FC was at 423. Pet parsed around 90% accuracy. They used Stuffed Cabbage and sat at 444 accuracy.

Then they summoned the pet.

It still missed the same % as before. It still had ~90% accuracy.

So it seems pets do not get any food buffs, even if you summon them afterwards.


So while trying to test how much accuracy is needed, we found this unfortunate bug.

At least, I hope it's a bug.


Spread the word!

I have a thought that, maybe, pets don't get affected by materia, either. That may be why I see 100% accuracy, but my pet sees ~99-99.5%(-12 acc on belt would put my pet at 430 accuracy). I'll try to test this Monday. Already we know Food doesn't work with pets, which means we're at a disadvantage compared to everyone else(~20-25% of our DPS not getting food contribution), but it can also be a bigger issue of Materia having less of a value.

This is more important than a tool-tip change, and it has now been glossed over--Twice.

[Kevee]

Also, from what I have observed, Bane resetting a Contagion DoT has been fixed.
They knew about it from my thread:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...5-proc-chance.

And I haven't noticed it since that last bigger hotfix patch.

Also, on a sidenote, despite my previous post, I can confirm the CONTAGION/BANE bug still exists.

I ran a few AKs last night and it definitely can still reset the timer with the 15% chance.

At least it's "Accepted."