Dragoon Thread, help discussions and more.

[Chompers]

So, let's make a 10s combo.

The simplest way to tell you this is that you are wrong and you should stop doing math. A) The buff last 20 seconds not 10 seconds so a 10 second sample for parsing examples is retarded. If you were to do this shit combo example over a 20 second period of the time the difference is more like 200 damage. B) given that its 20 seconds you wouldn't be using just vanilla BS true thrust rotation over and over you have to take into account that you have rotations like Chaos Thrust with better potency AND armor pen debuffs and you have a crapload of off GCD damage buffs that would scale with this over the course of the 20 seconds as well AND DoTs that benefit.

[Spythe]

The simplest way to tell you this is that you are wrong and you should stop doing math..

Anyone that thinks a 20s buff for 10% dmg isn't worth using has some issues. I can kinda understand the dot arguments since they are relatively weak but +10% dmg is good especially post 40. The better gear you get the more useful it is. I figured it was bugged or something but making an argument about not using it because of GCD is just silly. There is a reason the melee classes have rotations filled with buffs/debuffs. The poster also didn't take into account having the scholar skill speed buff and possible skill speed gear. The scholar buff alone drops teh GCD to sub 2.3sec

[SKYeXile]

The simplest way to tell you this is that you are wrong and you should stop doing math. A) The buff last 20 seconds not 10 seconds so a 10 second sample for parsing examples is retarded. If you were to do this shit combo example over a 20 second period of the time the difference is more like 200 damage. B) given that its 20 seconds you wouldn't be using just vanilla BS true thrust rotation over and over you have to take into account that you have rotations like Chaos Thrust with better potency AND armor pen debuffs and you have a crapload of off GCD damage buffs that would scale with this over the course of the 20 seconds as well AND DoTs that benefit.

He still proved its worth using though...since you do more damage...

[Dervy]

SNIP

Hopefully you read this and understand the reasoning behind it.

Firstly, The Chaos Thrust Rotation isn't "powerful". I was basing this off the most powerful skill we could do. Secondly, the Dots ARE NOT AFFECTED by external buffs like Heavy Thrust and Blood for Blood. That's why I was using Thrust Combo as an example, because it's the hardest hitting rotation that a DRG has.

I even said at the bottom of my post that this isn't taking into count the off-CD skills (our jumps), and I even STATED that over the course of a long fight, these will add-up.

The point I'm trying to make is, Heavy Thrust makes 0 difference when you're killing smaller packs, solo, or bosses that take a few minutes of your time. Personally, I'd rather use that extra skill to add a utility skill like Feint during dungeon fights to support the Tank.

And I did the math including jumps for 20 seconds also, and the difference was only around 200 for the first 20 seconds (Cause of Jump), then went back down to a difference of around 50 or 60 if I remember correctly for the next 20 seconds (cause Cool Down). I'll have to redo the math because I lost the paper I did it on >_<

EDIT: Seeing as someone else has also asked for a 20 Second Rotation, I'll do it. Essentially, that's 8 GDC skills we can use, 1 of them has to be a Heavy Thrust, and will include a Power Surge > Jump. I'll only be using the Thrust Combo, like before, as this is the hardest hitting combo we can continuously do.

EDIT 2: Just for some MORE confirmation. In no way, shape or form am I saying it is completely useless. In no way am I saying we should NEVER use it, nor am I disregarding the skill. What I am saying is this. The Heavy Thrust buff doesn't warrant enough use during shorter fights. Against Primals, The Praetorium Dungeons against Ultima Weapon, Ampador Keep and Wanderer's Palace, if you don't use it you're insane and you need to stop playing a Dragoon.

Just to make it clear, I'm proving a point that during shorter fights, the buff is almost so small, you're better off using another GDC skill instead like a Utility or again, go back into your rotation, hence why I suggest for it to be buffed ever so slightly.

Someone needs to make sure that everything is working as intended, whether or not he/she gets hate for it, or whether he/she proves themselves wrong. Fact is, if no one creates these hypothesis' and test these mechanics, we'll never know.

[Brynmor]

...

Firstly, The Chaos Thrust Rotation isn't "powerful". I was basing this off the most powerful skill we could do. Secondly, the Dots ARE NOT AFFECTED by external buffs like Heavy Thrust and Blood for Blood. That's why I was using Thrust Combo as an example, because it's the hardest hitting rotation that a DRG has.

...

Sorry but that's just flat out wrong. Go find a target dummy and apply Phlebotomize without any buffs and watch the damage ticks. Then do it with Heavy Thrust up, then with Heavy Thrust and Blood for Blood up. Not only do they benefit from the buffs but if you apply a DoT with buffs up and the buffs fade before the DoT does the DoT still ticks as if you had the buffs. DoTs in F14:ARR are 'snapshot' style. They use your stats and buffs from when you applied the DoT for the entirety of the DoT's duration.

[Dervy]

Sorry but that's just flat out wrong. Go find a target dummy and apply Phlebotomize without any buffs and watch the damage ticks. Then do it with Heavy Thrust up, then with Heavy Thrust and Blood for Blood up. Not only do they benefit from the buffs but if you apply a DoT with buffs up and the buffs fade before the DoT does the DoT still ticks as if you had the buffs. DoTs in F14:ARR are 'snapshot' style. They use your stats and buffs from when you applied the DoT for the entirety of the DoT's duration.

Unless they changed it from Phase 3, when myself and multiple others tested out DoTs, then I apologize for my misinformation. I'll test it myself once the servers are back up.