dev1031 You are losing your main playerbase by making things too easy/fast/casual

[Corrderio]

And once again, it doesn't seem like this is the game for you.

[Zenaku]

Holy cow i we have to deal with this for other 2days when the mods come back -.- i hope they working weekend. i hope the dev would shut all of you up both hardcore and causal. Middle is find by me :0

[Mugiwara]

Sorry to say, but this game may flop... more, the people who want a challenge will leave because the game is easy enough for a 8 year old to play and get everything and the people with "less time" will leave because stuff like guild wars 2 and etc will be out. I dont care how you try to spin it but when shorten the length of time it takes for things to be completed in any game, it will effectively make it EASIER. Hell, the way this game is going, we should just buy crap from the RMT to "save time". (I dont support RMT in any way) This Is how I feel at the moment and to be honest I wont be here if this game stay stupid easy. But I'm giving the game a chance for now...

[Zenaku]

Sorry to say, but this game may flop... more, the people who want a challenge will leave because the game is easy enough for a 8 year old to play and get everything and the people with "less time" will leave because stuff like guild wars 2 and etc will be out. I dont care how you try to spin it but when shorten the length of time it takes for things to be completed in any game, it will effectively make it EASIER.

This i agree can you post this in every casual vs hardcore post if not i do it myself and put your name on it lol.

[Mugiwara]

This i agree can you post this in every casual vs hardcore post if not i do it myself and put your name on it lol.

lol fine by me ^^

[Mugiwara]

all games are basically a time sink (especially any MMO), You play games for fun, and the accomplishment of achievements/ personal goals. So saying something like this game won't be a timesink is kind of silly IMO. ^^

[Abriael]

all games are basically a time sink (especially any MMO), You play games for fun, and the accomplishment of achievements/ personal goals. So saying something like this game won't be a timesink is kind of silly IMO. ^^

A timesink is an artificial way to *waste* the time of the player, and can be more or less hidden. Time -> Sink = wasted time.

If you are required to spend an extended amount of time camping an NM, waiting for it to pop, that's a timesink, because the game isn't conductive to fun, you're just staring at the screen and wasting your time while you wait for it to happen.

If you have to play all the way through a dungeon for the same amount of time, having to avoid traps, solve riddles, fight challenging and varied bosses and generally having fun, you're still *spending* time, but you're not *wasting* it. Ergo, you're not being subject to a timesink.

Some hardcore gamers are ok with timesinks because they have a ton of time in their hands, and wasting some waiting isn't that bad. Even worse, some advocate it to exclude other people from accessing the same content as they do.

Casuals have more limited time, and this means that they want to spend their limited gaming time *actively* having fun. No matter how hard or challenging that content may be. Dead times are not fun, ergo good game design excludes them.

It's really that simple.

I don't know how many times I've said this but a 21-24 hour NM doesn't mean you sit around for 24 hours. It means it can pop 21 to 24 hours after it's killed so 3 hours max.

Sitting around for 3 hours staring at a screen is still an enormous amount of *wasted* time. Even ONE hour of sitting and staring at a screen is nothing else than an hour of my life that I'll never get back. That's simply bad design.

Honestly there shouldn't be this division between "hardcore" "casual" w/e... There should be content no matter how much time you have to play. The problem is everything thing is easy right now. From leveling to killing NMs. Nothing requires much of any thought at all, just time but far less time than FFXI.

Realism and logic would dictate not to expect elite-level content in a game that still *radically* lacks content that can be enjoyed by everyone. Really challenging content will come when the easy/average content will be in place.
Even more so, realism and logic would dictate that hard/elaborate content can't come before the combat system is final and in place. The more tactical an encounter is, the less generic, the more specific it becomes in regard of fighting mechanics. If you changed combat around AFTER difficul/complex content was added, they would have to redesign the content *again* after the new battle system is implemented.
The development team is hardly in a position to waste development time doing things twice.

[Ostia]

A timesink is an artificial way to *waste* the time of the player, and can be more or less hidden. Time -> Sink = wasted time.

If you are required to spend an extended amount of time camping an NM, waiting for it to pop, that's a timesink, because the game isn't conductive to fun, you're just staring at the screen and wasting your time while you wait for it to happen.

If you have to play all the way through a dungeon for the same amount of time, having to avoid traps, solve riddles, fight challenging and varied bosses and generally having fun, you're still *spending* time, but you're not *wasting* it. Ergo, you're not being subject to a timesink.

Some hardcore gamers are ok with timesinks because they have a ton of time in their hands, and wasting some waiting isn't that bad. Even worse, some advocate it to exclude other people from accessing the same content as they do.

Casuals have more limited time, and this means that they want to spend their limited gaming time *actively* having fun. No matter how hard or challenging that content may be. Dead times are not fun, ergo good game design excludes them.

It's really that simple.



Sitting around for 3 hours staring at a screen is still an enormous amount of *wasted* time. Even ONE hour of sitting and staring at a screen is nothing else than an hour of my life that I'll never get back. That's simply bad design.



Realism and logic would dictate not to expect elite-level content in a game that still *radically* lacks content that can be enjoyed by everyone. Really challenging content will come when the easy/average content will be in place.
Even more so, realism and logic would dictate that hard/elaborate content can't come before the combat system is final and in place. The more tactical an encounter is, the less generic, the more specific it becomes in regard of fighting mechanics. If you changed combat around AFTER difficul/complex content was added, they would have to redesign the content *again* after the new battle system is implemented.
The development team is hardly in a position to waste development time doing things twice.

This! X10000! You nailed the issue to the Core!!

[Visch]

Sitting around for 3 hours staring at a screen is still an enormous amount of *wasted* time. Even ONE hour of sitting and staring at a screen is nothing else than an hour of my life that I'll never get back. That's simply bad design.

Well there is 7 30 second windows. So:

1) You're not always there for anywhere near 3 hours unless you're super unlucky
2) If you have a real life it's great because you can go afk for 29 minutes lol (because we all know how busy you are)

If you sit there staring then you must be really hardcore

[Mugiwara]

A timesink is an artificial way to *waste* the time of the player, and can be more or less hidden. Time -> Sink = wasted time.

If you are required to spend an extended amount of time camping an NM, waiting for it to pop, that's a timesink, because the game isn't conductive to fun, you're just staring at the screen and wasting your time while you wait for it to happen.

If you have to play all the way through a dungeon for the same amount of time, having to avoid traps, solve riddles, fight challenging and varied bosses and generally having fun, you're still *spending* time, but you're not *wasting* it. Ergo, you're not being subject to a timesink.

Some hardcore gamers are ok with timesinks because they have a ton of time in their hands, and wasting some waiting isn't that bad. Even worse, some advocate it to exclude other people from accessing the same content as they do.

Casuals have more limited time, and this means that they want to spend their limited gaming time *actively* having fun. No matter how hard or challenging that content may be. Dead times are not fun, ergo good game design excludes them.

It's really that simple.



Sitting around for 3 hours staring at a screen is still an enormous amount of *wasted* time. Even ONE hour of sitting and staring at a screen is nothing else than an hour of my life that I'll never get back. That's simply bad design.



Realism and logic would dictate not to expect elite-level content in a game that still *radically* lacks content that can be enjoyed by everyone. Really challenging content will come when the easy/average content will be in place.
Even more so, realism and logic would dictate that hard/elaborate content can't come before the combat system is final and in place. The more tactical an encounter is, the less generic, the more specific it becomes in regard of fighting mechanics. If you changed combat around AFTER difficul/complex content was added, they would have to redesign the content *again* after the new battle system is implemented.
The development team is hardly in a position to waste development time doing things twice.

So you want to turn a MMO to an "online Multi-player with instant satisfaction, your are better off playing a single player where these ridiculously timers would make sense, but it doesn't atm. Unfortunately, time sinks are needed to increase the life of any MMO, not having them at all is BAD DESIGN. This will do nothing but decrease the life of the MMO itself since its easier to acquire everything. If you wanted to have things given to you within 30 min of gameplay, a single player sounds best for you because clearly MMOs shouldn't be designed without "timesinks".