Enough is Enough

[Steggun]

There have been far too many posts recently from people arguing about hardcore vs casuals. Let's try and be constructive for once and start putting out ideas that would make the game enjoyable for all players.

Yes there will most likely be content that some people will never see, and some content that others will view as so easy it's not worth their time. Get used to it. Even WoW had Heroic modes for its 10-25 man content that lots of people could never complete.

It was hilarious to watch people argue on the WoW forums every time new raids came out. They would argue that the content was too easy because the best guilds in the world were able to clear them in a matter of weeks; these people raided daily for hours on end and were also practicing these raids on the test servers before they even came out. When in reality most guilds were just finishing normal modes months later, and a good portion of those guilds would never even complete the hard modes.

So here are some ideas from another thread that is being ignored for some reason. The first quote is from RemnantWolf, and the second is my reply to that post. You don't have to like these ideas; it won't hurt my feelings, but please keep the flaming and bickering to other threads. What I hope to see in this thread is both casual and hardcore players coming together with suggestions that will make the game enjoyable for all players.

Ballancing the game for ALL
I have recently seen a lot of topics saying how FFXIV is WAY to easy... and in all honesty I have to agree. Yet I understand SE's desire to bring in a new audience with the more "Player Friendly" environment.

But if bringing in new players is happening at the expense of past fans, then it may be more harmful than helpful. But how could you cater to both audiences? Well it would be hard but it is possible.

First the roads should stay about the same. It makes sense in a fantasy sort of way as the roads would be patrolled and cleared of any truly dangerous monsters. But the farther from the main roads you get the more dangerous things become. And I mean like "party required" kind of hard. Of course leave the core areas for the casual players, make it so they can get threw the game how they want to. But add areas that make hardcore players nervous, places that require not only a party but a smart party. And fill it with treasures and rewards unlike anything else you can find elsewhere. The best Harvesting spots, the greatest loot, and the most desirable recipes (that must be found personally before using). And don't make these places just endgame material, sprinkle them all over so that anyone wanting more than just levequests can explore the deadly challenges that FFXIV has to offer. Basically, Make the game accessible and fun for all, but reward your champions, not just with loot, but stories and adventure.

Add a death penalty. I do think that the leviquests are not suited for any kind of death penalty though. The time limit and nature of these missions is just not a good match for death penalty. So to keep the ease of leviquests on casual gamers, as well as give the hardcore players the risk vs rewards feel of exploration I suggest that guardian aspect be given a new ability to wave all death punishment for its duration. This allows for casual player to still grow steadily with leviquests without death penalty making them shy away from it, but still gives players who want to truly explore the risk to make the game world feel alive and dangerous, and not like a "no one cares snooze fest" This would keep the game accessible to the casual players and turn leviquests into something that hardcore players enjoyed as a "break" between grand quests and adventures.

And there is also the question of what would be punished. I know that in FFXI the punishment took away xp and that could work. But I have also seen an MMO where instead of taking away xp you receive debt, and it takes away 50% of xp until you pay off the debt and I think it could work here.

Those some of my ideas as to how to improve the game. But what about you? We all play this game Casual games and hardcore. Going after each other for wanting things our own way only makes development decisions harder to make for SE and therefor hurts the games chances of recovery. So how can we improve the game for EVERYONE? How would you change the game to keep it accessible to Casual gamers but challenging enough to bring in hard core players?

For the "Hardcore players" I think they should go ahead and add in HNM's/kings with 12-24 hour respawn timers for groups of 16+ players. The drops from these HNM's could be +1 or +2 versions of certain weapons and armor, and a very high drop rate (50-60%) for items needed to synth other high end gear.

For the "Casual players" they could add instanced boss fights like BCNM's or ENM's for groups of 4-8 people that could be done once every 5 days or so. These fights could even be light versions of the HNM's fights. The drops from these fights would be the normal versions of the same weapons and armor that is dropped from the HNM's, and the same items needed to synth the other high end gear would drop as well but at a lower drop rate (15-30%). Similar to ENM's from FFXI these fights would require everyone in the group to have a certain item which they have to obtain each week before being able to enter the fight.

[Kilta_Firelotus]

i still feel in a non flaming way that

players ingeneral should have access to 100% of a game they paid/pay for. That the petty lables are just petty.
I am not asking for hands outs. Just a chance to do content. No matter if I get the reward right away or not. Rewards are no issue for me I just want to do the content.

I started ffxi with a 2hr time limit that was set after I bought it. I was limited from even basic content. I bought a ps2 new ffxi and can play 20hr if i wanted. I was still not able to do content due to lack of players. Everyone had formed groups and not enough people to form more.

If everyone can access 100% all content then their will be enough players to do said content. I again an just looking to do the content not looking for how fast I get rewarded.

[Yellow]

I think with WoW, everything was like a mindless grind

Some ideas, but feel free to criticize

- long progressive dungeons would be nice, while also having some short dungeons.
~But I don't think 'long progressive dungeons' would be hardcore only as you could just save the dungeon each time you kill a boss

- I have mixed feelings about death penalties.
~ I think that early on in the game, there shouldn't be any major penalties, but once you're into the game, the penalties are more affective.

- Maybe when you reach endgame content instead of losing experience, you lose durability (for endgame gear) which hurts your gil

And an Idea for endgame gear, maybe having a system where you start with XX level gear, and then complete ???? and be rewarded with an upgrade to get gear level 2.

~ Other ideas also including, upgrading it with certain endgame quest rewards.
~ All of the ideas could apply to all/some items. So you could gear your armour from a dungeon, and upgrade your weapon.

All basic-ish idea's that really aren't that important but could add some difference in the game

Although the upgrade idea is very similar (if not, exactly the same) as Vanilla WoWs way to get armour (Tier 1, Do quests = Upgraded to Tier 2).

i still feel in a non flaming way that

players ingeneral should have access to 100% of a game they paid/pay for. That the petty lables are just petty.
I am not asking for hands outs. Just a chance to do content. No matter if I get the reward right away or not. Rewards are no issue for me I just want to do the content.

I started ffxi with a 2hr time limit that was set after I bought it. I was limited from even basic content. I bought a ps2 new ffxi and can play 20hr if i wanted. I was still not able to do content due to lack of players. Everyone had formed groups and not enough people to form more.

If everyone can access 100% all content then their will be enough players to do said content. I again an just looking to do the content not looking for how fast I get rewarded.

All content is available to everyone It just depends how you want it.

'Casual' players can still access the 'Hardcore' content.

I see myself as neither 'Hardcore' or 'Casual', and I can still access most of the content in MMORPGs (Except for 'Heroic Raids' in WoW ~ But why bother? same content only harder >_>).

[Kaedan]

i still feel in a non flaming way that

players ingeneral should have access to 100% of a game they paid/pay for. That the petty lables are just petty.
I am not asking for hands outs. Just a chance to do content. No matter if I get the reward right away or not. Rewards are no issue for me I just want to do the content.

I started ffxi with a 2hr time limit that was set after I bought it. I was limited from even basic content. I bought a ps2 new ffxi and can play 20hr if i wanted. I was still not able to do content due to lack of players. Everyone had formed groups and not enough people to form more.

If everyone can access 100% all content then their will be enough players to do said content. I again an just looking to do the content not looking for how fast I get rewarded.

I don't agree. There is going to always be styles of content that are more suited to people with lots of time, and styles of content more suited to people with a little time. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having content tailored for both. I also disagree with this because that would mean making everything solo-able.



And to be honest (this is less related), the "I don't care about rewards" is weak and ridiculous. People don't repeat the same content over and over "for the hell of it". They repeat it for the reward.

[Kilta_Firelotus]

@ yellow as long as everyone can do said content i'm all for it.
more players = more chances to join a group. So i can actually do content.

[Kilta_Firelotus]

I don't agree. There is going to always be styles of content that are more suited to people with lots of time, and styles of content more suited to people with a little time. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having content tailored for both. I also disagree with this because that would mean making everything solo-able.



And to be honest (this is less related), the "I don't care about rewards" is weak and ridiculous. People don't repeat the same content over and over "for the hell of it". They repeat it for the reward.

umm no it don't less ppl with access then less chance anyone even with time to acess it.
I played ffxi fpor 12-20 hours and i couldn't do content cuz I couldn't join any groups. There was not enough people doing it.
and dude i just play a game for fun. You the weak minded person if you think that digital gear means anything after you log off stop taking mmo so seriously. making content accessable to everyone is not saying it will be solo only.

[Kaedan]

umm no it don't less ppl with access then less chance anyone even with time to acess it.
I played ffxi fpor 12-20 hours and i couldn't do content cuz I couldn't join any groups. There was not enough people doing it.

Well good thing I'm not talking about FFXI then...

When you played FFXI, it didn't have styles of content that favored people with less time to play. I'm talking about having content that:

1) Everyone has time for
2) Requires parties and time investment (tailored to people with more time)
3) Can be done solo or with small parties and little time investement (tailored to people with less time)

There is no reason we can't have all three in a game.

[Kilta_Firelotus]

kaeden after my first year I played ffxi for 12-20 hours 7 days a weel I had a ton of time to play. I still couldn't do content because there wasn't enough people to do content with. Everyone had already full groups/Ls's.
there wasn't mean ls's with free spots. The 2 times I did join a LS both broke over petty gear fights.

[Nuru]

In my opinion, FFXI NM drops were a time sink that didn't need to be. Then again, the items they dropped were indeed useful for a long while. Ex. Okotes lvl 34-70 (+)

The longer spawning NMs should drop equipment for more long-term level range. Perhaps for a required class instead of optimal rank so that the effects last as long as Rank 50. This idea benefits the Hardcore gamers.

The NMs that have a short re-spawn period should drop items that will last no more than 5-7 levels and have an optimal rank instead of class requirement. This way, any class can equip this item and will benefit the Casual gamers.

[Mack]

i still feel in a non flaming way that

players ingeneral should have access to 100% of a game they paid/pay for. That the petty lables are just petty.
I am not asking for hands outs. Just a chance to do content. No matter if I get the reward right away or not. Rewards are no issue for me I just want to do the content.

I started ffxi with a 2hr time limit that was set after I bought it. I was limited from even basic content. I bought a ps2 new ffxi and can play 20hr if i wanted. I was still not able to do content due to lack of players. Everyone had formed groups and not enough people to form more.

If everyone can access 100% all content then their will be enough players to do said content. I again an just looking to do the content not looking for how fast I get rewarded.

Everyone does...you're only limited in whether you want to invest the time or not.