The problem with "Instant OFF GCD" abilities makes combat feel less rewarding.

[ufufu]

Well that sucks.

[Selyndria]

I think they should just ditch the gcd altogether. I don't recall FFXI having it and I loved how things worked. Different spells had different cast times and that was it. I remember using things like chainspell which would basically be impossible in the current system.

[Acretia]

I think they should just ditch the gcd altogether. I don't recall FFXI having it and I loved how things worked. Different spells had different cast times and that was it. I remember using things like chainspell which would basically be impossible in the current system.

Word, Ditch it.

[thenewzero]

I think they should just ditch the gcd altogether. I don't recall FFXI having it and I loved how things worked. Different spells had different cast times and that was it. I remember using things like chainspell which would basically be impossible in the current system.

Just because the "GCD" didn't display doesn't mean there wasn't one. There were animation times that basically functioned as variable GCDs. You couldn't activate an ability, weapon skill, *and* start casting a spell all at the same time., or if you were a SAM under Meikyo Shisui you couldn't activate 3 weapon skills at exactly the same time even though you had the TP for it. Some stuff, like Sneak Attack, could be activated at *almost* the same time as a Weapon Skill, basically functioning as "off the GCD" abilities. You also had to wait a few seconds after finishing one spellcast to begin another.

Just because there were no icons that greyed out doesn't mean there wasn't a global cooldown. It just wasn't static and depended on what you were doing. A GCD is just something that prevents you from using multiple actions at the exact same moment.

Can you imagine how completely impossible this game would be to balance, especially PvP, if an Archer or a Lancer could activate 4 or 5 Weapon Skills at the same time? Not only would that pretty much void all the awesome animations they put in the game, but it would absolutely insane burst damage. It would also be really stupid if an optimal rotation required you to activate multiple Weapon Skills at the exact same time.

[Slickpig]

I think I'm having the same issue as PLD, when I'm using my normal 3 WS rotation, but I want to throw in a rampart, or fight+flight in the middle, it just doesn't activate until the other GCD WS is finished. is that what this thread is about?

Many times it just won't activate at all, I have to wait until all GCD and animations are done before I can use them, it's like they are on the GCD as well, and a lot of times I end up missing it for a few rotations, this leads to me taking a lot more damage than I should, or doing a lot less damage then I should, extremely frustrating while in the middle of battle and I need to buff myself. If this is by design, then it's a horrible design! It's broken.

[delphinius81]

I think I'm having the same issue as PLD, when I'm using my normal 3 WS rotation, but I want to throw in a rampart, or fight+flight in the middle, it just doesn't activate until the other GCD WS is finished. is that what this thread is about?

Exactly. Some skills can be used instantly but not trigger a GCD. But all skills must wait until the current GCD is finished before they can be used. This is made more annoying by the fact that that GCD icon animation is not present on these skills, making it appear that they should be usable. At a minimum, the GCD wait icon effect should be placed on all skills/actions that cannot be used.

[Benjamen]

I don't see anything wrong with it :s As warrior it lets me use a GCD attack and before being able to use the next part of the combo I can use 1 of the various buffs then rinse/repeat and yes it flows nicely, not sure if you notice but yes you cannot use the instant ones in an instant but during them you can break the animation forcing the next move (if that makes sense). Idk im not arguing but thats how its been for marauder/warrior, also Ive been trying gladiator and having shield bash on GCD makes it harder to use than marauders Brutal swing during battle, you can really notice the usefulness of off-GCD there. But yeh trust me I do see what your saying that its not instant but you just need to click it a couple times like anything else.

[Hirosashi]

As a PLD I do not really have any issues with my off-GCD abilities sure I cant activate all my defensive buffs at once instantly but that is fine, you have to plan ahead and watch your health and use strategy more. No skills in the game are meant to be truly instant and I am not sure how you came to that impression instant cast time does not mean it carries no animation, even cast time abilities have a small animation after words in which you still can not activate a skill its just less noticeable.

Here is what I can tell, they have a very complex system in play here, during an animation there are key points in which the animation can change before it is actually fully completed, take circle of scorn for instance, when I jump up I can not activate any other skills but as soon as I start to rise after landing I can activate spirts within. This makes sense because I am not sure if you have every tried but it is impossible to jump up in the air stab something and then stab the ground all at the same time, however once I land the stab is fair game even though there is a little bit more to the animation of circle of scorn than this. This is all about realistic and possible motions, also it is about balance in terms of PVP down the line, having several instant cast abilities that can all be activated literally within the same nano-second could ruin pvp and make it a one-shot fest of off-gcd abilities as fast as you can macro them.

Anyway that is just my two cents on the subject I like the new system and equating it to XI is not a good comparison as they are not trying to replicate the combat in XI in any way at all here and they don't need too, this combat system can stand on its own, GCD makes sense in this kind of system simply because if it was not in place I could easily output over 400 damage in just 1 second or 2 depending on the animations for my fast blade, savage, rage combo, which is game breaking for the way the combat is currently set up they would have to re-work EVERYTHING.

[Raymeo]

I don't see anything wrong with it :s As warrior it lets me use a GCD attack and before being able to use the next part of the combo I can use 1 of the various buffs then rinse/repeat and yes it flows nicely, not sure if you notice but yes you cannot use the instant ones in an instant but during them you can break the animation forcing the next move (if that makes sense). Idk im not arguing but thats how its been for marauder/warrior, also Ive been trying gladiator

Do it all the time on my 34 PLD. It's called weaving, you should give it a shot.

Fast Blade > weave in Rampart (or Bulwark if you prefer, makes no difference) > Savage blade > Weave in Fight or Flight > Rage of Halone > Weave in Blood bath.

I have them all up in a single combo and didn't miss a beat.

You're right, you didn't miss a beat. You only missed half of the potential duration of their stacked effects.

I'm not arguing that they can't be stacked. I am simply pointing out that this "breaking of animations" when using off-GCD abilities is non-existent. When you have two or more 15 second effects that you'd like to stack, and the GCD for abilities is 2.5 seconds, you would expect to be able to stack the desired effects and perform 5-6 attacks within their stacked duration. If these "instant" abilities broke animations as Benjamen claimed, then this would certainly be how things played out. However as things currently are, you pretty much sacrifice an attack from being included in that 15 second duration for each effect that you try to stack, due to all of the variable animations and ability delays. So stacking effects is actually detrimental to a player's effectiveness, forcing players to ignore their abilities instead of using them. Being forced to ignore your abilities instead of being encouraged to use them is what we call boring gameplay.

I haven't been having much trouble on DRG. Most of the time my off GCD abilities are triggerable about halfway thru GCD

No trouble? Look at your own words!

If you want to button mash, then that's fine, but maybe this game isn't for you.

It's like you haven't even played this game. Button mashing is rampant. We DON'T want to button mash. We are SICK of having to button mash in order to get a supposedly instant ability to trigger. That's the whole point of this thread. Have you even read it?

[Kanzer]

Do it all the time on my 34 PLD. It's called weaving, you should give it a shot.

Fast Blade > weave in Rampart (or Bulwark if you prefer, makes no difference) > Savage blade > Weave in Fight or Flight > Rage of Halone > Weave in Blood bath.

I have them all up in a single combo and didn't miss a beat.

It's not difficult. It doesn't even have to be in that order!

And if tanking multiple mobs, you can even tab between them and hit them with the different abilities to build threat more equally while weaving. Maybe even throw in a flash every now and then.