Binding Coil of Bahamut Discussion

[Ikkenoe]

What do you mean, the game gives you no information about Allagan Rot? You read tooltips for Rot and Immunity, you notice it passes to other people, you realize it blows up when the timer reaches zero. How much more information do you need? Takes like 2-3 runs to figure out how it works then maybe another 2-3 runs to figure out how to deal with it. After that it's just about your gameplan and execution.

Doesn't compare to Twintania in the slightest.

[Yenn]

What do you mean, the game gives you no information about Allagan Rot? You read tooltips for Rot and Immunity, you notice it passes to other people, you realize it blows up when the timer reaches zero. How much more information do you need? Takes like 2-3 runs to figure out how it works then maybe another 2-3 runs to figure out how to deal with it. After that it's just about your gameplan and execution.

Doesn't compare to Twintania in the slightest.

You completely missed the point, and I'm not in any way comparing Twintania to ADS. I'm comparing the way SE is exposing mechanics in general; encounters are artificially made longer by requiring brute force to figure out mechanics, and converting a large portion of the skill requirement into 'bash your head against this until you understand how it works.'

Remember the first time you got Twintania to phase 4? You have no idea what the fuck is going on, and then you die to one of her abilities, and you still have no idea what that ability did.
You have to spend hours getting back to phase 4 and seeing the mechanics over and over, and then more time trying new things, until you actually understand what they do. Absolutely no hints are given.

You figure out what Allagan Rot does by wiping to it a few times. Nowhere does it make any sort of implication that it needs to be passed off or it will wipe your raid. This is bad design. There are literally zero clues.
What if your group is spread out and nobody accidentally touches during Rot? You're not going to have a single clue that it needs to be passed.

On our first two attempts, it just so happened that nobody with Rot touched anyone else, and due to the terrible UI, nobody noticed that it was passed off. We spent a few attempts figuring out where immunity comes from (being close to ADS? Standing on the glowing blue area on the floor? Being near a wall? Who knows?), and then realized that Rot was being passed around. The game give zero indicators that this is how the mechanic works.

Change the tool tip to add something like 'Allagan rot is contagious.' to hint that it can be passed to other party members, and the encounter is much more friendly.


Encounters should be made hard by requiring us to actually play and execute well. Instead, they're being made difficult by making the mechanics extremely time consuming to figure out.
If we wipe, it should be because we fucked up, not because we don't understand how an ability works. Right now, almost every wipe by every competent FC is because they still don't fully understand her abilities/how to counter them.
If we wipe because we don't understand how an ability works, there should be some sort of hint to help us figure it out. Making us throw ourselves at it 20 times to understand it is just ridiculous.

[Ikkenoe]

I'm not trying to be rude, but really- if Rot coming from a Quarantine Node wasn't an obvious enough clue enough for you, then I don't know what else to say.

[Yenn]

I'm not trying to be rude, but really- if Rot coming from a Quarantine Node wasn't an obvious enough clue enough for you, then I don't know what else to say.

No, that's not obvious at all. I don't even know how to respond to this idiocy. How does touching another player in any way have anything to do with the word quarantine?
What do you do with disease? You quarantine it. Therefore it makes sense that it comes from a quarantine node. How about attack node?
In fact, the mechanic is the opposite of quarantining the rot.

If you're seriously trying to tell us you saw 'Quarantine Node' pop up and thought 'LOL I BET WE HAVE TO PASS THIS DEBUFF AROUND,' you're spewing complete and utter bullshit.
In fact, I know you're spewing bullshit, because you even said it took 2-3 attempts to figure out how it works. Evidently the word 'quarantine' didn't tip you off on the first attempt.

While we're on the topic, how do the rest of the node's names give you hints on how to counter their abilities?
How about the Sentry Node? What tip did it's name give you? Or maybe the Monitoring Node? What does monitoring have to do with constant raid damage?

[Rokuthy]

So basically what you want is to hover over Allagan Rot, and on the tooltip you want it to say: "Allagan Rot: Infects player with rot for 12 seconds. Spreading this rot to another player makes you immune from its effects for 40 seconds. If at anytime the rot expires on a player without immunity, it explodes with area effect damage, killing all players in range."

I mean, Ok. I guess it could say that, or you could just go in and learn the way it works from trial and error. You either enjoy doing it or you don't really. I understand where you're coming from - I've seen certain things in the game that don't exactly make sense on its own. We've found ways to make sense of it, but it would be nice to have 'in-game confirmation' that a mechanic is behaving the way it should, but I enjoy the challenge of figuring things out as well.

The Rot is a bad example, because similar mechanics have been used for years in other MMO's - and if this happens to be your first, Rot is still a bad example because it isn't overly complex and can be figured out rather quickly with trial and error.

[vRoad]

Encounters should be made hard by requiring us to actually play and execute well. Instead, they're being made difficult by making the mechanics extremely time consuming to figure out.
If we wipe, it should be because we fucked up, not because we don't understand how an ability works.

I find it pretty fun with the excitement of finally realizing what an ability does and what to do to counter it. Sort of like piecing the parts of a puzzle together.

In your case of Allagan Rot, I immediately connected it to the only mechanic that felt familiar when I noticed the immunity debuffs start popping up on our players (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=72865 / http://www.wowhead.com/spell=72884). For others, I guess it's a trial-and-error game, but there's nothing wrong with that.

I guess you'd be fond of a Dungeon Journal-esque addition to the game that describes every detail of every ability of an encounter.

[Betelgeuzah]

Encounters should be made hard by requiring us to actually play and execute well. Instead, they're being made difficult by making the mechanics extremely time consuming to figure out.
If we wipe, it should be because we fucked up, not because we don't understand how an ability works. Right now, almost every wipe by every competent FC is because they still don't fully understand her abilities/how to counter them.

Oh no, do you need to use your brains too? I can't believe SE would make you do that.

Just keep crying how unfair it is, the really skilled players have already long since figured it out and are going to beat the coil while you're here wiping your tears.

That's because for good players it's not time consuming to figure the mechanics out. They're simply better than you, and you seem to have a hard time dealing with that. Boo freaking hoo.

[HiirNoivl]

Hey knock it off! I don't want to read this. And besides, threads have been locked over lesser arguments.

Let's not get this thread deleted for no reason! >:O

[Sygmaelle]

If we wipe because we don't understand how an ability works, there should be some sort of hint to help us figure it out. Making us throw ourselves at it 20 times to understand it is just ridiculous.

Good god that was such an amusing reading.

I truelly hope you ll never attempt to do the raids in Age of Conan or even Rift. Figurin out is what make stuff enjoyable.

[Raiz_Cineris]

Encounters should be made hard by requiring us to actually play and execute well. Instead, they're being made difficult by making the mechanics extremely time consuming to figure out.
If we wipe, it should be because we fucked up, not because we don't understand how an ability works. Right now, almost every wipe by every competent FC is because they still don't fully understand her abilities/how to counter them.
If we wipe because we don't understand how an ability works, there should be some sort of hint to help us figure it out. Making us throw ourselves at it 20 times to understand it is just ridiculous.

Good grief, have a little pride as a gamer. Handed out hints to counter boss mechanics? What is this world coming to, really?