Raise the level cap... and make it burn!

[RemnantWolf]

Going through the forums there seems to be one very obvious divide, Hardcore and casual. The hardcore wanting more difficult challenges and dangerous lands. The casuals are happy with the "log on once a week and get to Rank 20 in no time" feel it has now. So how do we balance this out?

Well I think that Raising the level cap may be a good start, but not just raising the level cap.

What you do is make rank 1-50 as casual friendly as you want, no big deal. Give them all the casual content they could want. An arena for rank 1-50 quests and leviquests and some pvp options. But once you reach rank 51 things get a lot harder.

EDIT

Ok I know that a lot of the feedback for this Idea has been negative, and after reading it I can see why. I really did over do it and missed what my idea was really supposed to be. What I was trying to say was that there should be a point (maybe rank 50 or so) where the game becomes more geared towards hardcore players. Someone made a point that hardcore options should never be the only way to level, and I have to agree, what I meant is that it should be a lot slower to level this way as apposed to the more hardcore driven content.

This way everyone has 50 or so ranks of casual game to enjoy, they can all reach the top rank (though hardcore players can reach it much faster, which I think should be how it works anyway), and hardcore players get lots of content geared towards them as well as a reason to participate in it.

[zaviermhigo]

I would say, raise the cap, but the casual and hardcore aspects have to blended perfectly in the 1-50 range, you can't hardcore players and casual players divided between level caps, the casual players will want to get to rank 51 in a game they play and would find it too hard for them at 51.

Also a huge assumption that may be wrong here is that hardcore players don't want mid level content and casual players don't want endgame. I think both groups here want the same thing, the argument is how. They're has to be a balanced mid-high rank content and endgame in place to appease both these groups, not two separate systems. That's why this is so hard.

[RemnantWolf]

I would say, raise the cap, but the casual and hardcore aspects have to blended perfectly in the 1-50 range, you can't hardcore players and casual players divided between level caps, the casual players will want to get to rank 51 in a game they play and would find it too hard for them at 51.

Also a huge assumption that may be wrong here is that hardcore players don't want mid level content and casual players don't want endgame. I think both groups here want the same thing, the argument is how. They're has to be a balanced mid-high rank content and endgame in place to appease both these groups, not two separate systems. That's why this is so hard.

It's true, I know not everyone is the extreme I show here but when I look through the forums I see two groups, one saying make it harder, the other saying don't change anything, and both showing a my way or get out attitude. I have thought of ways to satisfy both but it seems that the groups are so polarized and against each other that compromise isn't as much an option.

I would love a game that is balanced between each side. "Satisfying and keeping the casuals happy, but rewarding the hardcore players with the best stuff for the extra work" is what I truly want, but after reading the comments they leave to each other the only thing I feel may work is putting them in their separate corners.

I want to do it blended like you say, the problem is whether or not the two sides are willing to find a balance amongst each other.

[Naylia]

I think that was supossed to be the initial purpose of r1-20. R1-20 is tutorial, after 20 you start unlocking class content. There just isn't that much of it, and what there is, is silly easy. My lancer shouldn't be able to one-shot the bad guys in story battles dedicated to his class/rank.

[zaviermhigo]

I think that was supossed to be the initial purpose of r1-20. R1-20 is tutorial, after 20 you start unlocking class content. There just isn't that much of it, and what there is, is silly easy. My lancer shouldn't be able to one-shot the bad guys in story battles dedicated to his class/rank.

Yeah I thought r1-20 was supposed to be FFXI's level 1-10. A lot of people want this game to be more group based, and then some want it to be more soloable. So I really don't understand how people will ever come to terms in the middle :/ We can try, because I wouldn't mind a game where I could be casual while I'm in school, and then go hardcore more when I hit winter/summer break. I think if both content was in place or if the content was easily for both sides somehow, my dream could be attained lol.

[Kazimir]

I think if the game is raised to a cap at 75 it wouldn't be too much if it took the same amount of time to reach cap as it did in FFXI around when CoP came out. The problem really isn't that it takes too long to reach the cap, it's about not having enough fun content in between that will actually make people want to stop leveling every now and then so they can do other fun things.

In FFXI I was pretty much as hardcore as hardcore gets after I reached the cap. There were plenty of things to do in between that time though so it took me at least 4, maybe 5 months to go from 1-75, and that was with playing almost everyday for many hours a day. I wasn't eager to hit cap because I made friends in the game as I leveled and could do all kinds of things with them. We farmed, went adventuring, did all the holiday events, did ballista, all kinds of quests, story missions, went NM hunting. I just had plenty of old fashion fun.

That's what this game is missing. Things people can and will want to do together.

[Rhianu]

This is a terrible idea.

The topic creator makes the mistake of assuming casual players never want to reach the level cap, as well as suggesting things that should not be in any modern MMO (i.e. EXP loss).

I agree that there needs to be some kind of hardcore content to appease the hardcore crowd, but that content should NOT be incorporated into the level grind! The hardcore content needs to be something that's separate, like special dungeons or NMs. The level grind needs to be accessible for everyone. Not just part of the level grind, but the entire level grind.

And just so you know, casual players want to reach the level cap just as much as anyone else, they just want to do it at their own leisurely pace.

Oh, and one more thing, it would be a very, very, very bad idea to raise the level cap any sooner than the year 2013. The current levels are sorely lacking in content, and if the level cap were raised it would only create that many more levels that would have to be filled.

We don't need a new level cap right now. What we need is more quests, more dungeons, more NMs, more content.

[Arya]

This is a terrible idea.

The topic creator makes the mistake of assuming casual players never want to reach the level cap, as well as suggesting things that should not be in any modern MMO (i.e. EXP loss).

I agree that there needs to be some kind of hardcore content to appease the hardcore crowd, but that content should NOT be incorporated into the level grind! The hardcore content needs to be something that's separate, like special dungeons or NMs. The level grind needs to be accessible for everyone. Not just part of the level grind, but the entire level grind.

And just so you know, casual players want to reach the level cap just as much as anyone else, they just want to do it at their own leisurely pace.

Oh, and one more thing, it would be a very, very, very bad idea to raise the level cap any sooner than the year 2013. The current levels are sorely lacking in content, and if the level cap were raised it would only create that many more levels that would have to be filled.

We don't need a new level cap right now. What we need is more quests, more dungeons, more NMs, more content.

Whoa! 2013?! 2 years of a 50 cap (even if most content is added - which it will be in that time period) will just mean most people walking around with multiple Rank 50 jobs (even if they didn't want to level them - because they can't go any further with the class they wanted to play).

As long as Yoshi-P and the Dev's remember that there will still be plenty of people at lower levels when they raise a level cap, and continue to make lower level content (as well as higher level content), there will be plenty to do. In fact, I would have thought that if the lower level stuff is quite good, it might even encourage some players to go level a new class.

Regarding the OP, yes, I would like to see a harder grind for any future rise in the level cap. Currently 1-20 is ridiculously easy (I'd like to think I'm a casual player - I play 1-2 hours a weekday evening if I can get on, and maybe a little more on the weekends if I can get on - and obviously I regularly can't get on), 20-40 is still not a chore, and I've only felt 40-50 is being time consuming (i've only reached Rank 47 on my main class so far). I would love to see the difficulty curve continue for further levels, and hope SE don't go and nerf this in a few years (as they did in FFXI) when people get lazy and can't be bothered to make the effort anymore (which is a slap in the face to all those other players in the preceding years that ground their way to the top).

Even though I'm a casual player (though I would like to play more), I've managed to level fairly well as my fellow LS members group together to do leves every reset, ensuring good SP (despite surplus - which even I find annoying as it cripples your attempt at efficient levelling in your short playing time). Those LS members that have more time have levelled 2-3 classes in the same time (i.e. they outlevelled me a few times and I had to wait for the lower classes to catch me up so I could join them again).

Sensible casual players need to accept (and I think most do - there's just a minority that whines) that they cannot fly up the levels and obtain endgame/higher gear as fast as those harder-core (couldn't think of a better word, lol) players that put in way more hours than they do. But (at least to me), the achievement you feel when you get there is no less awesome because you know you've done the same thing.

I agree that if you're going to consistently play solo (because it's "too much effort" to play with others or join LS's?) then you will find it hard to level up. But then I also feel that if you're that kind of person, wth are you doing in a MMORPG? You might as well go play an offline RPG.

Bottom line: If it takes me a year to get from 50-60 (if/when they raise cap) because it's hard to do for the casual player, I don't care. I'll do it, and I'll feel like I've achieved something when I get there.

[Rhianu]

Whoa! 2013?! 2 years of a 50 cap (even if most content is added - which it will be in that time period) will just mean most people walking around with multiple Rank 50 jobs (even if they didn't want to level them - because they can't go any further with the class they wanted to play).

I say the level cap needs to stay where it is for at least two years because the current levels need to be absolutely bustling with content and filled to the brim with quests before the level cap is raised. And given that the game has been out for half a year already and the amount of content available has only gone up by a scant few quests, two years is probably about how long it will take the dev team to fill out the current levels.

Besides, level grinding is not the only kind of content an MMO can have, you know. If the endgame players want something to do at the current level cap during those two years, give them high level dungeons, quests, missions, and NMs. Give them epic loot and treasure to obtain. Release a new endgame dungeon with new, more powerful weapons and armor once every three months. That'll keep the endgame players satisfied for quite a while.

Oh, and one more thing... it's better to only raise the level cap when you release an expansion pack. That way you ensure that there will be plenty of new content for the new levels. Raising the level cap without an expansion pack to go along with it will leave the new levels with nothing to do.