New Job System Incoming!!! - But what does this mean??

[Cairdeas]

I feel like if you wanted to mix your system and Kuro's, it'd be easier to start off with your system (jobs are crowns/titles which limit your accessibily to classes/weapons, while also boosting specific skills), and then adding talent specs to each of the specific jobs.

For example: your Paladin crown could be specialized into offense or defense. Speccing into defense would make your paladin more proficient with defense-related skills, while speccing into offense would make him better with damage related skills.

Odds are the paladin who specced into offense spent most of his time with Lancer, while the one specced into defense would favor Gladiator/Sentinel (see the first picture I linked).

To use another picture as an example, assuming white mages could either spec into healing or buffing, this could be their healing tree in this system too: picture.

The system becomes a little complex at this point, however... especially if all options have to be balanced. Which is why I didn't really try to push this option back when we had the "job wars".

I think the misconception behind that picture I made is that your limited to those three choices. I just didn't make the mesh fill out for everything. Non of the systems I have proposed limit you from choices of weapons for a specific job. or vis versa.

[AlexiaKidd]

You can still have a job system and make it unique to FFXIV, but people need to understand, in order to make this game a final fantasy there needs to be that recognizable signature attached to it. FFXI-2 would be better than what is in place because it's the Final Fantasy we know and love. Don't get me wrong, I'm with you on not wanting to have copy and paste systems from XI, but it's what we as fans expect in a sense.

When you trail off into something unrecognizable to the series you're taking a big risk and in this case it was unsuccessful. It's about time they start making this Final Fantasy into... well, a Final Fantasy. If that is resorting back to a job system reminiscent to XI (which wasn't exactly the first installment that coined this) then so be it.




Excuse me for my bluntness, but I think your system may be skipped over because it's a head ache and you're overreaching.

Exactly my point. I would actually prefer Job/Sub Job with role clearly defined and traditional. I thought it was a great system and had enough flexibility, yes /NIN did kinda break it but as long as SE don't make the same mistake and keep thing balanced it would be great. I really don't like the mish mash we have in FFXIV and I don't think anything other than a complete strip and rewrite will change it. Being able to cross class is a balancing nightmare and is most likely the reason all the classes are meh because if they had something great you would level that class just to get it to stick it on something else.

If they keep the current system and build on it then it's going to need a lot more restrictions and class specific abilities and traits.

This is also my other point a lot of the current players don't want to be "pigeon-holed" (hate that phrase) but maybe a lot more people actually like filling a certain role. You need to fill a certain role, if you want to be a Tank you level PLD, if you want to be a healer you level WHM, if you want to be a DD you level DRK or another DD class and so on. Classes need definition and with the current system I can't see how it can be achieved. I have read a lot of the suggestions and they all seem to just be putting a plaster over the underlying problem with the system.

Like I said it will be interesting to see what SE has planned and can't wait for more info.

[Cairdeas]

Exactly my point. I would actually prefer Job/Sub Job with role clearly defined and traditional. I thought it was a great system and had enough flexibility, yes /NIN did kinda break it but as long as SE don't make the same mistake and keep thing balanced it would be great. I really don't like the mish mash we have in FFXIV and I don't think anything other than a complete strip and rewrite will change it. Being able to cross class is a balancing nightmare and is most likely the reason all the classes are meh because if they had something great you would level that class just to get it to stick it on something else.

If they keep the current system and build on it then it's going to need a lot more restrictions and class specific abilities and traits.

This is also my other point a lot of the current players don't want to be "pigeon-holed" (hate that phrase) but maybe a lot more people actually like filling a certain role. You need to fill a certain role, if you want to be a Tank you level PLD, if you want to be a healer you level WHM, if you want to be a DD you level DRK or another DD class and so on. Classes need definition and with the current system I can't see how it can be achieved. I have read a lot of the suggestions and they all seem to just be putting a plaster over the underlying problem with the system.

Like I said it will be interesting to see what SE has planned and can't wait for more info.

Carpe's system replaces the Job/Subjob ideal with Job/Weapon The Job defines your role. the weapon defines how you perform it. pretty similar to how the Job/Subjob worked but allows the Job System and Armoury system to work together without having to completely redo the armoury.

[solracht]

I just figured that you limited it to weapons that made sense for the job after seeing that picture. I didn't really agree with the complete freedom that your first system had as far as weapons/classes and jobs went, I thought you compromised after reading Carpe's idea, but apparently this went over my head. Dragoons with scepters, wands, bows and hand-to-hand weapons have no ground to stand on, and that's not the only "silly" example.

I see our current "job" as bare, freelancer, adventurer, etc. Someone who can use pretty much everything. By becoming a job, your weapon proficiency would be a little more limited, while your available weapons would be boosted.

I apologize for the confusion then.

[Cairdeas]

"Obviously some combinations will not "work" when it comes to usefulness in game but I feel it should be up to the player to determine that and not the Game. The game should give you the tools to do what you want. If what you want to do doesn't work you tweak it till it does.

Dragoon are not Weapon Specialized to Polearms. Yes that is their favored weapon but they can use a wide variety of weapons as seen in games like Tactics and XI.

[solracht]

Dragoon are not Weapon Specialized to Polearms. Yes that is their favored weapon but they can use a wide variety of weapons as seen in games like Tactics and XI.

Notice I never said polearms only, rather I mentioned the "silly" ones. I'm well aware of all of the weapons they could use.

Either way, the Crown+Talent system still works even if the weapon freedom went over my head. The job talent trees would not be about a weapon, but rather about role. If your Paladin wanted to use 2 swords, axe, lance.... bow or hand to hand, odds are he'd want to spec into the Offensive tree. If he wanted to tank (any one-handed+shield), he'd want to spec into the Defensive tree.

He could still use any weapon, but the trees would define how the job interacts with them even more, beyond what the job itself already did.

[Cairdeas]

Notice I never said polearms only, rather I mentioned the "silly" ones. I'm well aware of all of the weapons they could use.

Either way, the combination system still works even if the weapon freedom went over my head. The job talent trees would not be tied to a weapon, but rather a role. If your Paladin wanted to use 2 swords, axe, lance.... bow or hand to hand, odds are he'd want to spec into the Offensive tree. If he wanted to tank (any one-handed+shield), he'd want to spec into the Defensive tree.

He could still use any weapon, but the trees would define how the job interacts with them even more, beyond what the job itself already did.

Correct.

Also I like the idea of Paladin having access to the Mage Weapons For uses as a Holy DD Spell Caster running around nuking with Holy/Dia/Etc and side job Healing.

Seems like it would be fun. Kinda like a Cleric from D&D.

[Reika]

I hope it isnt Job/Subjob...

[AlexiaKidd]

I see our current "job" as bare, freelancer, adventurer, etc. Someone who can use pretty much everything. By becoming a job, your weapon proficiency would be a little more limited, while your available weapons would be boosted.

I apologize for the confusion then.

This is how I vision the current "classes" they are just a mish mash with no focus. I am not sure how to explain it fully but I always thought of the current classes as kinda the street punks you see in movies. Then they meet a true master who trains them to be better then using a combination there new found skills from the master and what they learned on the street they become the best.

Thats how I would love for them to introduce the traditional classes in FFXIV. With the "coming danger" I think it would be really great if all of a sudden you found out that your R50 MRD was nothing compared to the real beasties hiding in zones yet unseen. For the "unlock" mission you could go somewhere and get owned by something only to have a full AF DRK come and take it down no problem and thus your quest to becoming a Dark Knight has started.

I know a lot of people wouldn't like that though as it would kinda make all the time they spent getting to R50 see pointless but I still think it would be cool ^^

[Lazerus]

can someone please link the post about these new changes coming ? for some reason i can not seem to find them