The growing entitlement issues of the casuals

[Abriael]

Of course i play for fun and i guess you are the same. But still.. there are loads of Games.. Offline or Online.. if i spend Time on a Game i want Results. As in playing a game to get 100% done, do complete a Mission or get Items. Why would i want to share those Stuff with People which just come around a Corner and be like "here i am give me that".?

That's the usual strawman argument. *No One* asked "here I am, give me that". People want access to content. No one asked for automatic rewards.
I spend time on a game because it's more fun/likable than others i have access to. Not because it gives me more gear.

Are we just talking about some Content or all Content? I knew people in FFXI for years which never come to fight Groundkings and they didnt care. So what kind of Content we talk about?

ALL content should be accessible to everyone. It's that simple. Casuals paid for this game as much as I or you did. So they are entitled to play it in it's entirety.

It has been publicized as casual friendly. You got a Rank 50.. now tell me. Is it really casual-friendly?

Considering that you can get to 50 in a very reasonable amount of time just doing guildleves and that absolutely no content puts excessive barriers to keep casual gamers out, yes, it is.
Casual friendly doesn't necessarily mean a walk in the park.

And beside all that Stuff.. Did you read the Polls? There you will get some Hints about the People which are playing currently and their Playtime.

None of the polls responses hinted to the playerbase being particularly hardcore.

[Nero]

I spend time on a game because it's more fun/likable than others i have access to. Not because it gives me more gear.

ALL content should be accessible to everyone. It's that simple.

Enough of quoteing for today >.<.

I play also for gear/items/achivements. I dont think i would play if i just would sit around looking at the Landscape.

Well noone said something against having access to all Content. "Hardcore"-Players just want something they can get where they have to put a lot effort into, like 24-48 Pops, Relics or w/e you would call "HARD" to obtain.

Dont you agree?

[Randis]

"Hardcore"-Players just want something they can get where they have to put a lot effort into, like 24-48 Pops, Relics or w/e you would call "HARD" to obtain.

Dont you agree?

Nope. Some people simply want gear that others can not obtain at all, the only advantage of those people is that they are able to spend a long periode of time in-game at once. Those who work, have families simply can not access this content. It is not about skill or effort.
epeen issues

This is not a single player game. This is a MMO where you play and compete with others in one form or another. It would piss me off totally if i can not have some great gear just because i am not willing to do some hardcore camping at night or if it takes ultra extended playtime in a single day.

[Mina]

I don't think having challenges is a bad thing in a game. Challenges are what a lot of "hardcore" gamers enjoy and feel pride in. I feel bad though for those of us who don't have time do to work/kids/etc. and can't make all the events that are required by places to get some of the gear we too would like to have.

Achievements and maybe that sort of status type award on people's profiles I have no problem with. Something that the elitists can be happy about and that the casuals won't feel bad they can't be a part of.

I myself always desired the Nirvana and several other items in FFXI that I found that I could never get. Either do to work hours or because I had real life obligations that I couldn't break I would inevitably be kicked from shells for poor attendance.

Nothing's wrong with being a casual or a hardcore player. We're all here to have fun and enjoy this game, right?

[Nero]

Nothing's wrong with being a casual or a hardcore player. We're all here to have fun and enjoy this game, right?

Some nice words there.

[IndigoDarkwolf]

This thread has me wondering if there shouldn't be a matching "The growing entitlement issues of the hardcores".

I mean, I get it. You spent more time in-game this week than I'll probably spend this month. You rearranged your schedule to meet with your guildmates. You passed on hanging out with your other friends because it's the only time your guild can get together. You waited, possibly for hours, as you got the gang together and prepared for the latest dungeon, fight, whatever. You want something to show for it.

Do you know what I want? Really, the only thing I want out of this game (or any other MMO out there)? I want to play with my friends.

Except that MMOs are usually really, really bad at this. They segregate, and separate, based almost entirely on time spent in-game, and force newcomers to level for 50, maybe 60 hours in which they're literally nothing but dead weight to their friends before they can actually play with their friends. Making new friends at low and middling levels is often hard, as well, because differing play schedules and play amounts will just force the players apart again, until they all meet up again in "the endgame".

Which is a real shame, because you'd think that such vast, persistent worlds where it's so easy to meet new people and spend so much of your life would be the kings of social gaming. But instead they're completely taken over by people who think that if you haven't suffered through your 50-60 hours of solitary "lolnoob" grinding, then you don't deserve to even stand in their presence. And meanwhile "social gaming" is itself defined by stupid flash games on Facebook. Isn't this backwards?

But here's the rub: Even with systems like FFXI's level linking (though that certainly helped a lot!), you just can't bring those titans of the endgame back into the "lolnoob" content. In the end, it's always "been there, done that, got the <insert rare epic drop here>." Even the best friends only have so much patience for PL'ing their buddies up from nothing.

Hardcore players are worried that they won't be able to make me utterly irrelevant with their vast investments of time. I'm worried I'll be utterly irrelevant to my friends because I can't make such investments. Which of us is wrong? Or is there some way of reconciling the two?

[Gicker]

I'm a casual and I agree with the OP. We should be able to have 'good enough' gear as a casual, but the top notch stuff should be dedicated for those who put in the time. A casual should be able to get it if he plays long enough, though.

[Kaedan]

Why is everyone so against letting hardcores have their content too? (yes, most of this game is very much catered to Casuals)

A good example is the Joyeuse in FFXI. I was a Red mage and really wanted that sword. But the mob was a long spawn and constantly camped. This ensured that the sword was rare. What is wrong with that? Personally, I think it's really boring and uninteresting if everyone in the game has "Excaliber +10 sword of epic uber-slaying". There rightfully should be equipment that takes significant amounts of time invested to get.

I had plenty of Casual friends (I'm "mid-core") who would get the time of death of NMs and narrow down the time they had to spend to a couple hours at most. That should be doable. And even barring that, they could make a similar-but-slightly-different version of the item that can be bought with some sort of guild point or token.

[Kilta_Firelotus]

I call casual those like you who dont care at all for efficiency and being the best at your role in a party.
I call a hardcore a person who plays efficiently and that plays to be the best he can in every situation.

I dont care a peanut how you decide to play as long as you dont force me or anyone else to play like you, or in contrast to leach my exp or items with your casual play.Find people who play like you and enjoy the game your way.I like enjoying it my way.There is plenty of people and play styles to chooce from , and you are so wrong to be anti -elitist (or hardcore) as anyone you complain about being anti casual.

Time have nothing to do for both terms in my book.

then your def is pretty much silly as is your attitude. :3 i give you lalafell huggies :3

[Kilta_Firelotus]

Why is everyone so against letting hardcores have their content too? (yes, most of this game is very much catered to Casuals)

A good example is the Joyeuse in FFXI. I was a Red mage and really wanted that sword. But the mob was a long spawn and constantly camped. This ensured that the sword was rare. What is wrong with that? Personally, I think it's really boring and uninteresting if everyone in the game has "Excaliber +10 sword of epic uber-slaying". There rightfully should be equipment that takes significant amounts of time invested to get.

I had plenty of Casual friends (I'm "mid-core") who would get the time of death of NMs and narrow down the time they had to spend to a couple hours at most. That should be doable. And even barring that, they could make a similar-but-slightly-different version of the item that can be bought with some sort of guild point or token.

because harcore want hard core only content that casuals can't do. which skrews over others