The growing entitlement issues of the casuals

[Abriael]

if you must farm items for 10 hours to gain a token to access a dungeon, then you can do it slowly

You shouldn't have to farm items for 10 hours to gain a token to access to a dungeon period.
Why? because it's mindnumbingly boring, whether you are a casual or a hardcore. This is a game. Games aren't supposed to be boring.

[Kaedan]

Casual: People who realize that this and other games are just that - games. They typically are pursuing a college degree, or otherwise working a full time job. These people want to log on and just have some fun.

Hardcore: People who have no real life obligations, and therefore view the game as most casual players would real life. They think the game matters, and so want to be better than everyone in the virtual world because they are neckbeards in real life.

Wow... that couldn't be anymore biased or insulting. Careful, your hypocrisy is showing...

Casual: Someone who doesn't have a lot of time to play, so only logs in for a few hours a week.

Hardcore: Someone who has a lot of time to play and plays for many hours a week.

That's really all there is to it. You can make assumptions about them as well, but we all know how that works out. Did you ever consider that Hardcores want to have fun too? And if a game is too easy, it ceases to be fun. So for people who can and want to devote many hours to the game, they deserve to have some content that is tailored to them, just as much as the current content is tailored to Casuals.


tl;dr Behave yourself and make constructive comments or GTFO.

[TheVedis]

It sure as hell is.
Game can't be centered around chilluns who play from 3:30 when they get home from school to 11 at night every day.

no it isnt

life is life, not everyone has as much time to do stuff as others.
if you dont have as much time as someone else, you shouldnt be able to do as much as they can do

if i have 10 hours and you have 1 hour to play every day, i by right, should get more done then you, you shouldnt have your play accelerated to keep up with me

this is where the entitlement issues are coming in guys, thank you for proving what some of us were saying earlier

it had nothing to do with access of content, but you wanting to be able to do the same thing as hardcores without playing as much as them

its a time issue, you dont have it, thats your fault, not the games

[Abriael]

That's really all there is to it. You can make assumptions about them as well, but we all know how that works out. Did you ever consider that Hardcores want to have fun too?

Are you sure? because reading some of the posts from "supposed" hardcore around here, it seems that quite a few do NOT want to have fun (advocating mindless grinds, farming items for hours on end, big timesinks and such), as much as simply putting artificial time-based stumbling blocks to exclude people that have less time from some of the gear-based rewards and content.

And if a game is too easy, it ceases to be fun.

Time != difficulty.
Difficulty = difficulty.

You can have extremely challenging content that can be completed in an hour.

If people have many hours to devote to the game, they should be catered to by adding more content (that can be accessed and enjoyed by everyone) so that they have a lot of things to do, not by wasting development resources to develop mindnumbingly boring timesinks that can be accessed only by a minority.

this is where the entitlement issues are coming in guys, thank you for proving what some of us were saying earlier

The only entitlement issue i see here is from some self-elected hardcore that want a game developer receiving money from everyone, to work to create content that can be enjoyed only by their little niche, instead of using those resources to create content that can be enjoyed by *everyone*.

So yeah, there definitely is an entitlement issue here, but it's not where you think it is.

[TheVedis]

You shouldn't have to farm items for 10 hours to gain a token to access to a dungeon period.
Why? because it's mindnumbingly boring, whether you are a casual or a hardcore. This is a game. Games aren't supposed to be boring.

if its 10 hours per time you get to enter...yeah id call it dumb

i meant to say 10 hours to gain permanent access to it, if thats the case, its easily accessible by those standards to both style of gamers, albeit it will take a bit longer for someone who doesnt play as long

the point is, if something takes time, it takes time, if you dont have that time, then there are obviously reasons you dont have it that are more important and you shouldnt be stressing so much over the game and forcing other people to bow down to your time frame to compensate

[Kaedan]

Are you sure? because reading some of the posts from "supposed" hardcore around here, it seems that quite a few do NOT want to have fun (advocating mindless grinds, farming items for hours on end, big timesinks and such), as much as simply putting artificial time-based stumbling blocks to exclude people that have less time from some of the gear-based rewards and content.

I honestly don't see that many people advocating grinding and excessive farming. "Big timesinks" is pretty much only advocated by a small number of hardcores specifically referring to a Death penalty.

But that doesn't even matter. No matter what someone advocates, they wouldn't advocate it if they didn't consider it as contributing to fun (unless they're a troll just wanting to start ****). They have the right to express their opinion on what they find fun and what they want in the game.

They also have the right (and quite justified, mind you) to complain if someone who does not put the same effort in gets the same reward.

[Yellow]

Can't content just be difficult? Not time wasting?

I think that's the main issue.

Spending more time doesn't always make you a better player.

Difficult content =/= spending a week grinding on monsters to get an item.


Previous Final Fantasy (non mmorpg) games are difficult. You don't have to grind for a week to get an item to beat a boss. You find out strategies and do it when you think you're ready.

[TheVedis]

Can't content just be difficult? Not time wasting?

I think that's the main issue.

Spending more time doesn't always make you a better player.

Difficult content =/= spending a week grinding on monsters to get an item.


Previous Final Fantasy (non mmorpg) games are difficult. You don't have to grind for a week to get an item to beat a boss. You find out strategies and do it when you think you're ready.

thats fine, we realize difficult = better
but some people are dont even want to spend ANY time at all, it almost sounds like they believe they should start at rank 50, with access to everything. And that is where the arguement is at now.

Its not about who has access to what, but some people thinking that they should be able to play for 1 hour and make the same progress someone playing for 10+ hours makes.

[Abriael]

i meant to say 10 hours to gain permanent access to it, if thats the case, its easily accessible by those standards to both style of gamers, albeit it will take a bit longer for someone who doesnt play as long

10 hours spent in a mindnumbingly boring farmfest are nothing else than 10 hours of your life you'll never get back. Make access regulated by an actually challenging encounter that takes half an hour, and you'll reward what actually deserves to be rewarded: Skill.

I honestly don't see that many people advocating grinding and excessive farming. "Big timesinks" is pretty much only advocated by a small number of hardcores specifically referring to a Death penalty.

It has nothing to do with death penalty, as much as the aforementioned "10 hours farming an item to access content".

But that doesn't even matter. No matter what someone advocates, they wouldn't advocate it if they didn't consider it as contributing to fun (unless they're a troll just wanting to start ****).

I disagree. There are plenty reasons to advocate something, especially between people that tend to lean towards elitism as many hardcore gamers. Elitism is often very conductive to irrational behaviors and beliefs.
One I see a *lot* around here is a simple matter of status symbols. They want to block as many other people as possible from getting what they can get, no matter if it's fun or not. Actually, the more unfun and boring the better, because they know that will weed out more casual players.

They also have the right (and quite justified, mind you) to complain if someone who does not put the same effort in gets the same reward.

Given any decent amount of content, hardcore gamers will *always* have more and faster than casual gamers. It's simply a physical matter. There's no need to put in artificial stumbling blocks to ensure that casual gamers will *never* get to enjoy certain content. They will already get there *way* later than hardcore gamers (that by then will have already moved to newer content, and will keep their advantage indefinitely, unless content developement stops).

[Mishakai]

What you need to do is avoid the path of least resistance.

A lot of people say that they play for the group, or the ambiance that can only be achieved when a large group of people complete a goal.

How do you put that to the test?

Make a challenging single player encounter that someone can defeat the first time through and get a reward, and make a challenging multi player encounter that a group of 8 people can defeat the first time, of which only one gets a reward.

A majority of people will take the path of least resistance to the new gear. Even those who say that they raid because they prefer the social aspects associated with raiding, will forgo their moral high ground in pursuit of the easy route to new gear.

I propose the argument that most people who say that they prefer a certain play style (hardcore/raid casual/solo) only say so because deep down, they believe that is the most efficient way to better gear rewards.