A FEW FACTS FOR EVERYONE.

[Bibimbap]

1. Not every aspect of SE can receive 24/7 attention, even with shift working and infinite sleep hax.
2. Even if somebody is on top of the situation, it takes time to do anything. There are many relays to consider.
3. Their silence doesn't mean that the community reps aren't here.
4. The reason the JP servers work and the NA/EU servers don't is that there are simply too many people trying to access the NA/EU servers.
5. NA/EU servers are not played strictly by NA/EU players, and the JP are not played strictly by Japanese people.
6. Paying whatever you payed so far does not entitle you to being overly ignorant and malicious. You still agreed to their terms of service.
7. Unless we are there or have recently been there, we have no idea what is going on at SE.
8. SE is a business - their goal is to make money.

Bonus. The English player-base is vastly the most vocal player-base on the forums.

I know you will all take what you want from this.

edit: edited for clarity, and to spell things out for some people.

[Serade]

1. Actually this is an MMO launch, they actually are expected to and rightfully so. That's the job they signed up for not some minimum wage job as a cashier. Welcome to salary position were the hours are as demanded.
2. They aren't doing anything to solve it though. No idle kicks, no queue to login, artifically keeping servers populations low by prevent people to connect. (see Error 1017)
3. True but there is no reason that when they do update us that it's the same message rehashed over and over, only slightly changed to address the new Error. (On top of the fact they said 4 times they found a fix and yet have made it worse.)
4. The reason is because they stupidly put NA/EU servers together instead of a dedicated server for each. On top of the fact that we have twice the player base of Japan, yet we have less servers.
5. I don't know why this matters, or why it needed to be mentioned.
6. It entitles us to a solution quickly or appropriate communication and not lies that they "fixed" the problem when 4 times now its just gotten worse.
7. Same goes to you buddy.
8. And they are going to crash and burn at this rate with bad press and lose their NA audience, which is far greater than Japan.

I know you will all take what you want from this.*

edited for you Brandt, you nitpicker you.

edit 2: I find this thread quite amusing.

[Bibimbap]

1. Actually this is an MMO launch, they actually are expected to and rightfully so. That's the job they signed up for not some minimum wage job as a cashier. Welcome to salary position were the hours are as demanded.
2. They aren't doing anything to solve it though. No idle kicks, no queue to login, artifically keeping servers populations low.
3. True but there is no reason that when they do update us that it's the same message rehashed over and over to the new error. On top of the fact they said 4 times they found a fix and have made it worse.
4. The reason is because they stupidly put NA/EU servers together and not in either country. On top of the fact that we have twice the player base of Japan yet we have less servers.
6. It entitles us to a solution quickly or appropiate communication and not lies that they "fixed" the problem when once again, 4 times now its just gotten worse.
7. Same goes to you buddy.
8. And they are going to crash and burn a this rate with bad press and lose their NA audience, which is far greater than Japan.

I know you will all take what you want from this.*

I posted indisputable facts; you posted 2 at the most.

[Zalareyn]

I posted indisputable facts; you posted 2 at the most.

That's really funny, because it's really all a matter of perspective here... Now, keep in mind I'm not saying either is right or wrong as the point here is moot.

However, having worked in IT and being a student in software engineering, I can tell you the reality of the market: IF you have a product being rolled out, you want to have the least possible bugs, and nothing that can negatively impact the company. To do so, you're gonna have your employees working 48 hours a day just to make sure that the product gets rolled out; it's a FACT of the job market buddy. And yes, I did say 48 hours because your bosses will be trying to create time for you if they can.

Now, that aside; I'm not saying they're doing nothing. Hell, if anything, I'm guessing the Dev team are doing either of the following: Panicking like theres no tommorow while to fix this or waiting on directives/reports as to what the hell is causing this.

Regardless, they ARE going to extreme lengths to NOT communicate with us beyond Twitter/Those very rare updates and that looks very bad. Now, in marketing, it's not so much as to what you do as it is how you look, the impression you give off. Beyond this simple fact is that these very issues showed up in open beta (a.k.a. phase 4) and they went ahead with the schedule for the EA and launch (or so it seems) without taking time to consider the actual impact this might have. They have proven that they were not able to anticipate the number of users for the EA and have offered a very poor solution: lock out anywhere between 25 to 60% of the NA/EU pop.

/end rant

[Feria]

That's really funny, because it's really all a matter of perspective here... Now, keep in mind I'm not saying either is right or wrong as the point here is moot.

However, having worked in IT and being a student in software engineering, I can tell you the reality of the market: IF you have a product being rolled out, you want to have the least possible bugs, and nothing that can negatively impact the company. To do so, you're gonna have your employees working 48 hours a day just to make sure that the product gets rolled out; it's a FACT of the job market buddy. And yes, I did say 48 hours because your bosses will be trying to create time for you if they can.

Now, that aside; I'm not saying they're doing nothing. Hell, if anything, I'm guessing the Dev team are doing either of the following: Panicking like theres no tommorow while to fix this or waiting on directives/reports as to what the hell is causing this.

Regardless, they ARE going to extreme lengths to NOT communicate with us beyond Twitter/Those very rare updates and that looks very bad. Now, in marketing, it's not so much as to what you do as it is how you look, the impression you give off. Beyond this simple fact is that these very issues showed up in open beta (a.k.a. phase 4) and they went ahead with the schedule for the EA and launch (or so it seems) without taking time to consider the actual impact this might have. They have proven that they were not able to anticipate the number of users for the EA and have offered a very poor solution: lock out anywhere between 25 to 60% of the NA/EU pop.

/end rant

Yup I agree with Zalareyn. A good company would try their hardest to fix the problem ASAP. I agree that everyone need a break but this is an emergency. If they want to work/invest in this field they better know this fact.
From what I see, SE haven'y try their best to fix these problems.
The thing that I'm pissed at is they KNEW the approx. number of players by letting them pre-ordered the game. So they SHOULD be prepared for it.
They should create more NA/EU servers, we're talking about servers for the rest of the world apart from Japan here. Korean, Thai, Chinese etc. they would all come to NA servers.
No one would join Japanese servers unless they can speak Japanese. So I don't get why SE made this kinda mistake??? This is really ridiculous

The reason that people are angry wasn't really because they can't play but it's because SOME people get to play while some can't.
We all know that high levels can control the economy within the server. So yea I want to level my toon and crafting stuffs and make some money for myself.
I know it's just a game but I've been living with online games since I was like 10 years old. This sux! :l

ps. pardon my bad English

[Orangewaffle]

That's really funny, because it's really all a matter of perspective here... Now, keep in mind I'm not saying either is right or wrong as the point here is moot.

However, having worked in IT and being a student in software engineering, I can tell you the reality of the market: IF you have a product being rolled out, you want to have the least possible bugs, and nothing that can negatively impact the company. To do so, you're gonna have your employees working 48 hours a day just to make sure that the product gets rolled out; it's a FACT of the job market buddy. And yes, I did say 48 hours because your bosses will be trying to create time for you if they can.

I'm not a software engineer, at least not yet, but I do work in the industry in QA and what you say is absolutely true. When you're in the industry, OT is the norm not the exception. The product has to get rolled out, deadlines have to be met. And from the QA side of things, you most defintly want the least amount of bugs in your shipped or live service by the time of release. This is really not an exception. It'll look terrible otherwise.

As far as what is happening with SE, I do believe they are seriously making attempts to fix the issues. However, because they underestimated server capacity, they have to resort to unuser-friendly methods to achieve server stability temporarily. A lot of this could've been avoided had the turnaround between OB and EA not have been so short imo. SE then would've had time to address server capacity, and adjust accordingly. Think about it, even with the key situation, they didn't have enough infrastructure to support the NA/EU for key retrieval for some time. They had to ad-hoc a solution for that as well. I do have faith still SE will get things corrected, but their IT department and QA staff need to look at themselves after these issues are a thing of a past, so SE can learn from them.

[Struttin]

I posted indisputable facts; you posted 2 at the most.

Actually you only had two facts as well, 3-4 assumptions and the rest opinions. Lets not throw around great words like indisputable out of context.

[Bibimbap]

Actually you only had two facts as well, 3-4 assumptions and the rest opinions. Lets not throw around great words like indisputable out of context.

There are a couple that could be worded better... but I would like to hear your reasoning, if you have the time.

[Papamax]

There are a couple that could be worded better... but I would like to hear your reasoning, if you have the time.

I don't mean to hijack this fascinating, informative dialogue you're having with everybody, but I thought I'd share my feelings.

1. I've just finished playing a brand new character on one of the JP servers from level 1 to level 10. The experience was fantastic. It was, I dare-say, exactly the type of experience that EVERYBODY THINKS IT SHOULD BE ON THE NA/EU SERVERS!
2. The only difference I can see (not having your insight into the inner-workings of SE) is that THERE ARE THE SAME NUMBER OF SERVERS FOR A SINGLE COUNTRY AS THERE ARE FOR TWO ENTIRE CONTINENTS! (I'm paraphrasing another poster.)

I strongly suggest that you read some of the many, many posts that have been written by frustrated, PAYING customers. If you haven't, then you're completely unaware of how they feel about apologists and enablers. If you have, and you still came onto these forums to try and convince everyone that there really isn't a problem, then you're a troll.

[Vahaxtaru]

Actually you only had two facts as well, 3-4 assumptions and the rest opinions. Lets not throw around great words like indisputable out of context.

I think saying "indisputable" is a "great" word is quite disputable. But I'm dumber than a burlap sack full of gravy, so what do I know?

Also, Let's all just take a deep breath, release it, use some scope, and remember that the odds of us actually being a living breathing, thinking, organism in the vast emptiness of space is actually pretty special, and if this server logjam, or this run-on sentence is the worst thing to happen to us today, then it has been a pretty good day.