Materia System

[Lionix]

For the most part, this post goes to you Peregrine. Of course, it goes to anyone who applies anyhow.

OK OK, this is borderline insane. I had to freakin' jump a bunch of post because the monopoly paranoia is just... I may have to google a word for super-incredibly-crazy-ass-huge. Or make one. Hugegantic. Maybe Hugegantuous.

Remember, and by Christ, this is just an example because most will probably be familiar with it, FFXI? Where crafters had some serious power? End game event (up to a point in history) used to simply drop coveted rare materials that were then sold to crafters, who made the best gear there was, WHO YOU BOUGHT IT FROM. The game did not flop because of this, for Christ's sake.

We do not have ONE "company" called "The One Crafting Guy", and you are ENTIRELY disregarding supply and demand. Hell, and affordability. I sell the materials for MANY kinds of "materias", not the ONE I want to buy, to multiple crafters. I proceed to also sell a LOT of my unrelated spoils, hides, meats, etc. I sell a buttload of crystals and shards to crafters that are just burning through all of this stuff just to skillup (and break, hah!). THEN I return, and I buy that ONE "materia" I want from ONE crafter, who I will chose if the price is justifiable in my eyes. If it's "too high" because he apparently wears a monocle the way you depict them, I freakin' walk away and go the next crafter until I find a cheaper one, because sooner or later, expensive things have to be marked down due to either not being affordable or competition. Too expensive still? Keep on creating materials out of your endless supply (materials from farming, this is the magic part, supplies are infinite) and keep selling, until you just buy it. Like we have always done.

Man, do you know how many Behemoth were killed for hides? And how many of their beautiful products were bought? You can rest assured, crafters charged you for the materials' worth on the end products, and we payed them (I just did Alchemy there, so I had to), and the world didn't torn asunder due to some insane monopoly theory.

Your goal as a battler is not to have an equal part on the economy! It's to get to just afford (key word, afford, not make an insane equal profit, why would I craft then?) that new piece of gear that will have you kicking dragon buttchops with pride!

Also: Option B is getting the materials, all of them, and have a single guy do all the work for me, for a small fee rather than have him buy the materials entirely from me so I have to pay it back, plus interest (in the end it's pretty much equal, but people are generally gentler, even giving, with commissions). Why the hell are you selling the "materia" components for "materia" you want anyways? You sell what's pretty much of no concern for you, you are making a profit in that case.

I think the three points you need to reevaluate are:
-The economy is not a three-persons game, you do not make the sales to the same person you buy: This is important, it has ramifications.
-There is no reason in this planet why a person that's entirely a fighter should have an even close to equal monetary gain (not to mention you are disregarding how attaining the end product is ALSO a gain, and an important one! Gains and costs aren't all measured in money, even as a complete salesman/crafter, disregarding time, among other things,is a horrible mistake), when you are considering a single product: Fighters have many other areas from where to gain, to invest in one. And even if it were an economy based on a single product and three persons, you'd be selling the "same crafter" materials for 10 "materias", buying one. See how it rolls? Who's losing now, in my micro-scope (similar in scale to yours, honestly) economy?
-Entirely (big, big mistake here) disregarding supply and demand.



And after all is said and done, who gives a rat's ass about who makes money in a game where money is over-flowing out of everyone's pocket? They screwed the pooch real bad the moment they made money appear out of nowhere in copious amounts with just leves. Did they learn nothing out of the common MMO economy with "Trash Loot" compared to FFXI's "Everything is useful and money is not given for free everywhere"?

[Duelle]

And after all is said and done, who gives a rat's ass about who makes money in a game where money is over-flowing out of everyone's pocket? They screwed the pooch real bad the moment they made money appear out of nowhere in copious amounts with just leves. Did they learn nothing out of the common MMO economy with "Trash Loot" compared to FFXI's "Everything is useful and money is not given for free everywhere"?

They learned the fact that those who found farming boring and could not sit around for hours for NMs to pop were screwed out of a source of income in XI. I like the fact leves serve their purpose in giving me income (granted, every 24 hours would be better than every 36). And for the record, no I'm not swimming in gil.

[Lionix]

They learned the fact that those who found farming boring and could not sit around for hours for NMs to pop were screwed out of a source of income in XI. I like the fact leves serve their purpose in giving me income (granted, every 24 hours would be better than every 36). And for the record, no I'm not swimming in gil.

Well it would be illogical for me to try to argue with your personal experiences.

Though you have to admit that quite honestly yours seems a rather instanced case. (The money subject, I mean, not the "fun" subject. I wouldn't dare argue about such a relative thing, you have your right to that one.)

[Firon]

They learned the fact that those who found farming boring and could not sit around for hours for NMs to pop were screwed out of a source of income in XI. I like the fact leves serve their purpose in giving me income (granted, every 24 hours would be better than every 36). And for the record, no I'm not swimming in gil.

No one forced you to farm in XI tho to make money nor craft it was all up to you the player

[ZephyrAM]

No one forced you to farm in XI tho to make money nor craft it was all up to you the player

I think, though, that the point is everyone in XIV can make money in different ways, depending on how they choose to do it. They don't have to just take part in the ridiculous NM farming that existed there in order to actively participate in the buying/selling of the economy.

There should never just be one way to do much of anything in a good MMO, and the fact that crafting, gathering, 'and' combat classes can all perform this aspect in their own different way is a good thing.

[Duelle]

I think, though, that the point is everyone in XIV can make money in different ways, depending on how they choose to do it. They don't have to just take part in the ridiculous NM farming that existed there in order to actively participate in the buying/selling of the economy.

There should never just be one way to do much of anything in a good MMO, and the fact that crafting, gathering, 'and' combat classes can all perform this aspect in their own different way is a good thing.

This.

XI's issue was that outside of farming mobs for hours, crafting for hours to skill up then pray your synth is an HQ, staying around an area waiting for NMs to pop and camping the crafting guild shops to buy out their inventory to resell said inventory in the AH at higher prices, there wasn't much one could do to earn money. The mistake with leves is that they were semi-sold as a focus point of the game, whereas I see it as a tiny part of a much bigger world. Not to mention it is backed up by game lore, for whatever that is worth.

[Peregrine]

For the most part, this post goes to you Peregrine. Of course, it goes to anyone who applies anyhow.

OK OK, this is borderline insane. I had to freakin' jump a bunch of post because the monopoly paranoia is just... I may have to google a word for super-incredibly-crazy-ass-huge. Or make one. Hugegantic. Maybe Hugegantuous.

Remember, and by Christ, this is just an example because most will probably be familiar with it, FFXI? Where crafters had some serious power? End game event (up to a point in history) used to simply drop coveted rare materials that were then sold to crafters, who made the best gear there was, WHO YOU BOUGHT IT FROM. The game did not flop because of this, for Christ's sake.

We do not have ONE "company" called "The One Crafting Guy", and you are ENTIRELY disregarding supply and demand. Hell, and affordability. I sell the materials for MANY kinds of "materias", not the ONE I want to buy, to multiple crafters. I proceed to also sell a LOT of my unrelated spoils, hides, meats, etc. I sell a buttload of crystals and shards to crafters that are just burning through all of this stuff just to skillup (and break, hah!). THEN I return, and I buy that ONE "materia" I want from ONE crafter, who I will chose if the price is justifiable in my eyes. If it's "too high" because he apparently wears a monocle the way you depict them, I freakin' walk away and go the next crafter until I find a cheaper one, because sooner or later, expensive things have to be marked down due to either not being affordable or competition. Too expensive still? Keep on creating materials out of your endless supply (materials from farming, this is the magic part, supplies are infinite) and keep selling, until you just buy it. Like we have always done.

Man, do you know how many Behemoth were killed for hides? And how many of their beautiful products were bought? You can rest assured, crafters charged you for the materials' worth on the end products, and we payed them (I just did Alchemy there, so I had to), and the world didn't torn asunder due to some insane monopoly theory.

Your goal as a battler is not to have an equal part on the economy! It's to get to just afford (key word, afford, not make an insane equal profit, why would I craft then?) that new piece of gear that will have you kicking dragon buttchops with pride!

Also: Option B is getting the materials, all of them, and have a single guy do all the work for me, for a small fee rather than have him buy the materials entirely from me so I have to pay it back, plus interest (in the end it's pretty much equal, but people are generally gentler, even giving, with commissions). Why the hell are you selling the "materia" components for "materia" you want anyways? You sell what's pretty much of no concern for you, you are making a profit in that case.

I think the three points you need to reevaluate are:
-The economy is not a three-persons game, you do not make the sales to the same person you buy: This is important, it has ramifications.
-There is no reason in this planet why a person that's entirely a fighter should have an even close to equal monetary gain (not to mention you are disregarding how attaining the end product is ALSO a gain, and an important one! Gains and costs aren't all measured in money, even as a complete salesman/crafter, disregarding time, among other things,is a horrible mistake), when you are considering a single product: Fighters have many other areas from where to gain, to invest in one. And even if it were an economy based on a single product and three persons, you'd be selling the "same crafter" materials for 10 "materias", buying one. See how it rolls? Who's losing now, in my micro-scope (similar in scale to yours, honestly) economy?
-Entirely (big, big mistake here) disregarding supply and demand.



And after all is said and done, who gives a rat's ass about who makes money in a game where money is over-flowing out of everyone's pocket? They screwed the pooch real bad the moment they made money appear out of nowhere in copious amounts with just leves. Did they learn nothing out of the common MMO economy with "Trash Loot" compared to FFXI's "Everything is useful and money is not given for free everywhere"?

You've already been addressed twice.
Crafting. Gathering. Battling. They can all be taken as collective entities, where the sum of the power of all individual members collectively give the discipline one large economic weight.

And you simply are not capable of understanding that concept given that this is the third time now that I've had to explain it that individuals don't matter, that the entire system would give too much power to the entire crafting discipline.

You won't get it. Doesn't matter really. I'm sure the devs would if they ever saw the argument.

[Lionix]

And you simply are not capable of understanding that concept given that this is the third time now that I've had to explain it that individuals don't matter, that the entire system would give too much power to the entire crafting discipline.

Easy now, please give it a chance I just pointed out that--

You won't get it.

Nevermind forming "forum" with this mentality. I'm afraid it'll be for the better if we just agree to disagree and just let things develop and see what actually happens.