Materia System

[Sonic_the_Hedgehog]

the only cheaper crafter you find it still going to be making at least a 400% profit from you, though.

True, but the point is for me to spend less money. I don't care if the crafter is trying to make profit, it's their job to make money. I'm looking for the best deal. I wouldn't go to someone who's selling gear for 120 million gear if there's someone else selling it for 80 million gil.

[Peregrine]

Yeah, that's the thing - there is still a lot of stuff we don't know. It's kinda hard to start heavy analysis and theorycrafting if we're basing it mostly on assumptions and hypotheticals. It's a lot to keep track of and I don't think everyone is on the same page due to the lack of a sold basis of known facts.

You don't have to know that information. If the answer is that only battlers can generate materia, then the system is still broken. If the answer is that battlers aren't the only ones...well...sucks for them. They were going to lose, but now they are going to LOSE.

The only hope that this system has is that town crafting is DEAD and market crafting is so common that crafters essentially have to pay whatever battlers say for materia they don't even want any more.

That is, battlers already got their maxed materia weapons, and are now just selling their garbage incidental materia to townies.

I have no respect for crafters in this game, as a crafter. They don't deserve what they have. They don't deserve what they're about to get.

[OMEGA_HACK]

eh, but your still loosing out in the long having to pay for the weapon x2 (one to make materia one to equip materia to) and having to pay for the catalyst (cause I doubt the crafter will hunt these down and I doubt you will want them to run off with your materia while they search for the correct catalyst) and you will have to pay for the infusing process. combat classes loose out BIG time with this, and the only way to combat something like this is for the combat classes to start up a craft to screw over other combat classes or to merely be able to do it themselves. In the long run it only hurts the economy even more, I believe what Peregrine is ultimately trying to say.

[Sonic_the_Hedgehog]

You don't have to know that information. If the answer is that only battlers can generate materia, then the system is still broken. If the answer is that battlers aren't the only ones...well...sucks for them. They were going to lose, but now they are going to LOSE.

It's not broken, the point of the DoW/DoM is not to make money. If a DoW/DoM wanted to make money they either farm or pick up a crafting class.

[Physic]

EDIT: in response to Peregrine's post on 120k finished product, with 12k start up cost...

That's just not true. If the mats to make the end product cost 1/10th of the final value, best believe in no time at all, a bunch of other crafters will jump on it and the end product will be worth nearly the same as the materials, effectively losing crafters money, or at best - breaking dead even.

This was how it worked in XI for a very long time (I can't comment on the past few years, since I haven't played). There were exceptions like elemental beads, of course, because there might only be 1~3 people on any given server who even had GSM 100.

A great example was something like Scorpion Harness and Scorpion Claw. You'd probably lose 50k~100k as a Bonecrafter if you NQ'd a Harness after buying the Claw, but that was balanced out by the chance to HQ. This game is slowly morphing into that right now. Months and months ago, I could make Banneret lances at 800~900% profit with just NQs, because I was one of 2 Goldsmiths high enough to do the synth. Now, I lose money if I NQ, but make a decent chunk of change if I HQ. It feels pretty balanced to me, right now.

There are also niche markets for gear that's not often crafted anymore, and potential to profit off of it. I recently dropped about 500k on a set of rank 20 crafting gear to finish up my last craft, when months ago it would've cost 50k for the set. I think it was cool to see that the only ones I was looking for available in wards were being sold by someone who realized that trend and capitalized on it, even though I was clearly getting ripped off in contrast to the cost of materials to make the gear I bought.

The market, on Selbina at least, is not broken right now by any means.

That happened to scorpion harness much later in the game, it was a 6mil item for a long time, wasnt till they had better, more easily attained gear that it dropped.

Here is the thing, there is no chance of failure on the first binding. So why should it cost more than repairs, which have a chance of failure? Only because of marketing.
Peregrines point, is that crafters wont want to work by commission, when they can make money. There are a lot of crafters who wont craft if you bring them the items, why? because if everyone gathers items themselves, the crafters as a whole wont make money. They may do it for their shell mates, but not for the average joe. Heck i remember early on in this game, when someone joined a crafting LS and they said their ls had said they can make item for people anymore, just wait till they make it themselves.

Its not in the best interest of a corporation of crafters to offer socketing services, when they can make more money off selling socketed items. And it would be logical to do this, if SE makes the system this way.

heres the key, crafters will pass any costs of materia back to the people they buy it from, and a cost for them doing the work, will it be a reasonable cost? probably not for some time.
Compound that to the fact, the crafter has the least invested in these ventures. Adventurer buys gear, wears it does whatever to get attached, gatherer farms up catalysts. The only thing the crafter does for this system is a guaranteed synth, why are they the ones that control the final product? The one who puts in the most work is the materia creator, unless the catalysts are super rare/in insane places to get to.

Maybe they should make a socketing npc and just leave the crafters out, or make it simply an option. Crafters will be making way more items, and thus already getting something out of the system.
We dont need to add an extra middleman cost to the prices, and basically ensure that it will be more profitable for crafters not to socket things for people with the required items.

[Physic]

It's not broken, the point of the DoW/DoM is not to make money. If a DoW/DoM wanted to make money they either farm or pick up a crafting class.

apparently the point of DoM/DoW is also to level materia, it would be bad to create a system where them leveling materia will not lead to them getting better gear.

[Drex]

Battle >>> sells Bloody lance head for 5m
Crafter >>> buy the head for 5m
Crafter >>> crafts and sells the champion for 6
Battle >>> buy the lance for 6

in this scenario the battle payed the lance 1m... 1m for the crafter work

if you put a materia cost in the calculation a gather would earn x gil for his time\work

the battle would pay then 1m + the gather cost...

thats how the economy works, the final user of an item will always pay who works to make it.

[danny52844]

this doesnt seem that good or original (idc if its original though just saying) any1 ever play the game 2moons they had something just like this and it doesnt add depth or anything to the game its just a way to be elitist

[Peregrine]

Maybe they should make a socketing npc and just leave the crafters out, or make it simply an option. Crafters will be making way more items, and thus already getting something out of the system..

DING DING DING DING!
This is the correct answer. Anyone who has a gear, a catalyst, and a materia goes to NPC, and the NPC either guarantees them a result, or a low chance at doubling materia on it. Then anyone can sell their result, regardless of what discipline they are.

Everyone wins once. Crafters sell their **** gear. Gatherers sell their catalyst. Battlers get their gear and sell their materia.

[OMEGA_HACK]

I offered that suggestion in one of my other posts and it really does seem to be the only way that no one can really control the markets like you are suggesting (and more than likely) will happen with SE's setup.

Also make the NPC charge a fair price (if you include Crafter and gatherer based materias) so that way we have gil getting removed from the game, something this game really has nothing of at the moment, in fact right now its the complete opposite, all the PCs sell to the NPCs to get more gil, instead you should have PCs BUYING from the NPCs more than they sell to keep inflation low.

As part of that they could also lower the cost for repairing gear from the repair NPC if they decide to make the NPC charge, it would allow two services for the price of the current one service (repairing gear). I think it would make people a little happier on all spectra tbh.