Materia System

[Amineri]

If you bring your materia crap out to get sp on, there are players out there who will not tolerate that. Thus would you rather carry around the gear with you to attach to it, or be forced to skill it up on marmots on your own time?

Hmmm, already a new buzzword has appeared ... "materia crap".

Sure, there are players that would scream bloody murder if I brought out and used an Iron Halberd instead of an Iron Halberd +2. But, those are the same players that would complain because I wasn't using an Iron Halberd +3, or more likely, that I wasn't using a Lance of whatever flavor they think is best. Fortunately, I don't play with those players ^-^.

Also, the current HQ system really needs to DIAF. There have been more than enough posts already about how HQ gear is 95% or so useless. Weapons and tools, and armor for tanks. That's the only useful HQ gear. Hopefully the materia system will be strong enough to make the absolute need for HQ items relatively moot, and then SE can rework the HQ / crafting quality system without it making such a huge impact on people.

That said, it'll be interesting to see how this plays out with all of the changes to the battle system.

[Peregrine]

Not unless the NQ just can just as easily make as good materia as HQ gear.

And if you don't want to use NQ gear to accumulate "affection points", then don't. Just buy your own materia. It's the same concept as buying stuff from gatherers because you don't want to gather, and buying stuff from crafters because your don't want to craft.

Better to never force or incentivise players to wear poor gear in the first place. They will choose to do so, and I won't be inviting them to get SP. Neither will Matsui, because a lancer who doesn't care about their performance, they just care about converting materia...won't be rewarded in the months to come.

I'm not advocating yet another stupid grind addition to this game...materia skillups. No way. That is 4/10 content that RMT, mindless grinders, and botters would love.

[Mack]

I bet the further your armor level is from your class level, in either direction, the slower the "materia conversion rate" becomes until it eventually stops. So for those of you saying this'll endorse people wearing armor not appropriate for their rank just so they can convert it to materia, it probably wont play into their favor both from an efficient point of view (as they wont perform well in battle) and the materia point of view.

Yeah you're right mack, great idea, i bet SE is probably smart enough to think of that themselves.

[origamikitsune]

Question:

Will jewelry items be able to have materia attached? If so, does that mean the jewelry can also be converted in materia? If not, will this not further marginalize the usefulness of jewelry?

Also, if jewelry can have materia attached, what mechanism brings into balance using three high-rank jewelry pieces (with three pieces of materia) vs six low-rank jewelry pieces (with six pieces of materia)?

Believe they said they were removing slot cost at some point. One of the dev posts somewhere mentioned it.

Some suggestions and concerns:
Like others, I am worried about being R50 on the job I love, going to all the effort to make all the gear I really want, and then have it marginalized by having to wear other gear to get my own materia. I enjoy being self sufficient wherever possibly, and helping others that do not have the desire to be so, but I don't want to have to sacrifice my own ability to perform well. If I level a DoL and DoH to use materia, why should I have to essentially nerf/gimp my DoW/DoM to get my materia?

I am also worried about the possibility of better stats on gear giving better materia. This has not been said to be the case, but I would think it is one possibility that at the very least the dev team already considered. The problem with this is that NM gear, which is currently the best gear in the game (arguably) could become the claim fest that it was in 11.

[Kiara]

Hi Peregrine and all,

Definitely some good concerns about the Materia System that I hope SE will address before it's released.

Running list of player critique of the Materia system, with proposed solutions:


Problem:
Matsui's new system focuses on rewarding the effort and innovation of players playing at their best, but this system seems to incentivize equipping low-grade equipment to battle. These focuses seem antagonistic to each other, and a player may be forced to choose between being at their best and getting materia.
Solution
You can attach to one tool, one weapon, and three armors at any given time. You do not have to be wearing said armor to attach.

This is a good solution.

But I also think - (shudder) - that they may be pushing to have you find *2* of the same HQ / "Best" Equipment you have, and expect you to turn 1 into the Ultimate Materia for use on the other.

I could definitely see a situation where SE's Designers think that the "Ultimate Materia" is to have, say TWO Crab Bows +3.

You use one to build up Attachment Points and turn into the best Materia it can spawn, and attach it to your 2nd Crab Bow +3. (~_~)

Is it a crazy grind / crazy expectation to put on Players? Yes. But compared to how long it took people to fully upgrade their Relic Weapons in FF XI (the early years), getting 2 Crab Bows +3 to turn one into Materia for the other is "easy" by comparison. (I don't like it, but I could see them thinking this would be a solution.)

Problem:
Materia growing appears to be an activity that favors current unaddressed problems in the game: players who farm shards with bots will now have more incentive to continue this activity. Let's not pretend that shard bots don't exist, or allow a system that further rewards that behavior.

Solution
More positively correlate materia growth to activities with high impact value, less growth for menial grinding and timespamming.

Definitely agree.

I hope Square considers something like "Performing the (New) Battle Regimen / Skillchain System", or "Effectively performing your role in the new Combat System (Debuffing, Enhancing the Party, using different Weaponskills or Actions, Staying at Ideal Distances to Attack, etc.)" or other diversity as you speak of, as the main factor for gaining Attachment Points.

NOT menial grinding of just "kill 1000 Enemies" to get your Materia created.

Problem:
The system feels like an archaic MMO farm or grind activity, which this game must avoid if it is to rise above.
Solution
-Diverse actions found in different playstyles cause attachment.

Agreed. I hope there are things like Multi-Step Challenges, Quests and Trials to overcome to gain Materia, and not just menial grinding.

This would prevent RMT / Bots from just grinding out Materia by equipping random Item and botting for X# of Hours to get Materia to flood the market.

Make it about SKILL. I'd rather spend ~3 months doing all sorts of various Quests and Challenges to gain my Ultimate Materia, vs. 3 months of Grinding over and over to get the same thing.

Lastly, if Square really is thinking about something like "You just have to have TWO of the same +3 Item (one for Materia generation, the other to attach it to)," THAT would actually cause MORE flooding of NQ and +1, +2 items onto the market, as the hardcore would go bonkers trying to get TWO +3 Items of the same type, and in the process, dump twice as many leftovers (NQ, +1, +2) onto the market.

But overall, don't get me wrong, I think this could be really exciting. (^_^)

[Malakhim]

Yeah you're right mack, great idea, i bet SE is probably smart enough to think of that themselves.

It's OK, man. I read it.

[Mack]

It's OK, man. I read it.

LOL thanks I needed the feedback. I just think SE have thought of the consequences and have done risk analysis on the system, people are just blowing things out of proportion.

[Rentahamster]

Better to never force or incentivise players to wear poor gear in the first place. They will choose to do so, and I won't be inviting them to get SP.

And if they only had NQ gear to begin with, then what?

Do you not invite people with NQ gear to party with you now?

[Peregrine]

Yeah, I don't think that ANYTHING that crafters already over-provide should feed into the HQ rates of any new item. Let's be honest. The crafters are the problem here. Too many products. Too little to do with them.

Thus, I don't want to see any crafters blowing +3 weapons on the best materia outcomes. I'd be okay with the only meaningful $$$$$$$$$$$$ that crafters see from this system for their services is a tip for their time. The resulting gear is not going to be sellable anyway.

If they refuse to craft your materia into a weapon, I know I will do it for nothing. Your mats. You bought that weapon from me. That was my benefit.

Crafters are going to rage at that statement, but really they're already benefitting from materia even if they never synth materia synths. People buy those weapons armor and tools to destroy. They get business. They already get their reward.

You can't have crafters double dipping this system by both enjoying people buying their NQ +1 and +2 crap AND taking heavy profits from inlaying materia into things.

One or the other.

[Richard]

Just because it has the name "Materia" on it means absolutely nothing.

This system isn't exactly new or inventive or fresh either. TERA's (now scrapped) crafting/upgrade system basically did the same thing. You took gear, any gear whether farmed, boss drops, world drops ect, and broke it down into a craftable mat and then upgraded other gear with it to make +1 to +9 gear. You lost the original piece of gear in the process to upgrade the new piece of gear. To get close to +9 gear (the best in the game) you would need incredibly rare weapons/armor which could take forever to get, just to upgrade another piece of armor.