Materia System

[Peregrine]

Running list of player critique of the Materia system, with proposed solutions:


Problem:
Matsui's new system focuses on rewarding the effort and innovation of players playing at their best, but this system seems to incentivize equipping low-grade equipment to battle. These focuses seem antagonistic to each other, and a player may be forced to choose between being at their best and getting materia.
Solution
You can attach to one tool, one weapon, and three armors at any given time. You do not have to be wearing said armor to attach.

Problem:
Jobs that have already hit the level cap sustain massive reductions in the amount of hits they perform on a given weapon or in a given armor set, relegating attachment to gear to a "grinding" activity like levelling or farming, which are either impossible for some or not fun for most.

Solution
You do not have to be on the job of the armor weapon or tool that you are attaching to
Diverse actions found in different playstyles cause attachment.

Problem:
Materia growing appears to be an activity that favors current unaddressed problems in the game: players who farm shards with bots will now have more incentive to continue this activity. Let's not pretend that shard bots don't exist, or allow a system that further rewards that behavior.

Solution
More positively correlate materia growth to activities with high impact value, less growth for menial grinding and timespamming.

Problem:
This system will eventually settle out to what outcome is common and what is rare as a means to distinguish materia on gear. For battlers, that rare event seems to be HQ'ing materia as their mechanism for power. For crafters, it seems to be that rare double materia attach. Where is the power-outcome for gatherers to give them equal weight?

Solution
-very rare catalysts
-Limiting common provisions to making common results.

Problem:
The system feels like an archaic MMO farm or grind activity, which this game must avoid if it is to rise above.
Solution
-Diverse actions found in different playstyles cause attachment.

Problem:
INVENTORY!
Solution
-new tab.

Problem:
If Rare/ Ex/ Rare Ex gear is consumable, it may drive rampant demand for bottleneck-supplied pieces.
Solution
-Rare/ Ex/ Rare Ex pieces do not produce materia, but very amenable to receiving materia.

Problem:
One Materia?!?
Solution
Two?

Problem:
Crafters may be able to double dip profits from this system, enjoying steady sales of their over-produced crap and charging ridiculous prices for materia inlaying and HQ inlaying.
Solution
Emphasize crafters' primary economic benefit to be to increase demand for their undesired final product production, not primarily from profit from materia activity.

Problem
If catalysts are made rare from gathering to give gatherers economic weight in the system, demand will drive overproduction of every other gathering material which is as big a problem as or a BIGGER problem than gear overproduction

Solution
-Separate catalyst aquisition from primary material aquisition
-Reduce incidental material-gets
-Place catalysts in secondary gathering locations

[Amineri]

Running list of player critique of the Materia system, with proposed solutions:


Problem:
Matsui's new system focuses on rewarding the effort and innovation of players playing at their best, but this system seems to incentivize equipping low-grade equipment to battle. These focuses seem antagonistic to each other, and a player may be forced to choose between being at their best and getting materia.
Solution
You can attach to one tool, one weapon, and three armors at any given time. You do not have to be wearing said armor to attach.

I wouldn't agree 100% with "equipping low-grade equipment to battle". Another way to characterize this is "gives incentives to players to wear gear appropriate to the challenge". It's saying the same thing, just another way to characterize it.

For example, your proposed solution leads to "everyone always wearing the same best gear". And this is just my own bias, but carrying around gear and not using it, in order to power it up to turn it into materia ... just seems kind of weird.

[Peregrine]

I wouldn't agree 100% with "equipping low-grade equipment to battle". Another way to characterize this is "gives incentives to players to wear gear appropriate to the challenge". It's saying the same thing, just another way to characterize it.

For example, your proposed solution leads to "everyone always wearing the same best gear". And this is just my own bias, but carrying around gear and not using it, in order to power it up to turn it into materia ... just seems kind of weird.

If you bring your materia crap out to get sp on, there are players out there who will not tolerate that. Thus would you rather carry around the gear with you to attach to it, or be forced to skill it up on marmots on your own time?

I'd rather keep the 5 pieces I'm attaching to on me, while having the option to perform at my best at all times.

OR you don't even technically have to have it on you. Maybe you trade gear you attach to to a moogle, and it atherite links it to you so that any actions you perform attach directly to the gear. Thus you trade a NPC the gear. It disappears. You go do some stuff. You come back. You get your materia with a chance of HQ.

Thus, you can always put your best foot forward, while cooking a better foot on the backburner.

[Amineri]

If you bring your materia crap out to get sp on, there are players out there who will not tolerate that. Thus would you rather carry around the gear with you to attach to it, or be forced to skill it up on marmots on your own time?

Hmmm, already a new buzzword has appeared ... "materia crap".

Sure, there are players that would scream bloody murder if I brought out and used an Iron Halberd instead of an Iron Halberd +2. But, those are the same players that would complain because I wasn't using an Iron Halberd +3, or more likely, that I wasn't using a Lance of whatever flavor they think is best. Fortunately, I don't play with those players ^-^.

Also, the current HQ system really needs to DIAF. There have been more than enough posts already about how HQ gear is 95% or so useless. Weapons and tools, and armor for tanks. That's the only useful HQ gear. Hopefully the materia system will be strong enough to make the absolute need for HQ items relatively moot, and then SE can rework the HQ / crafting quality system without it making such a huge impact on people.

That said, it'll be interesting to see how this plays out with all of the changes to the battle system.

[Kiara]

Hi Peregrine and all,

Definitely some good concerns about the Materia System that I hope SE will address before it's released.

Running list of player critique of the Materia system, with proposed solutions:


Problem:
Matsui's new system focuses on rewarding the effort and innovation of players playing at their best, but this system seems to incentivize equipping low-grade equipment to battle. These focuses seem antagonistic to each other, and a player may be forced to choose between being at their best and getting materia.
Solution
You can attach to one tool, one weapon, and three armors at any given time. You do not have to be wearing said armor to attach.

This is a good solution.

But I also think - (shudder) - that they may be pushing to have you find *2* of the same HQ / "Best" Equipment you have, and expect you to turn 1 into the Ultimate Materia for use on the other.

I could definitely see a situation where SE's Designers think that the "Ultimate Materia" is to have, say TWO Crab Bows +3.

You use one to build up Attachment Points and turn into the best Materia it can spawn, and attach it to your 2nd Crab Bow +3. (~_~)

Is it a crazy grind / crazy expectation to put on Players? Yes. But compared to how long it took people to fully upgrade their Relic Weapons in FF XI (the early years), getting 2 Crab Bows +3 to turn one into Materia for the other is "easy" by comparison. (I don't like it, but I could see them thinking this would be a solution.)

Problem:
Materia growing appears to be an activity that favors current unaddressed problems in the game: players who farm shards with bots will now have more incentive to continue this activity. Let's not pretend that shard bots don't exist, or allow a system that further rewards that behavior.

Solution
More positively correlate materia growth to activities with high impact value, less growth for menial grinding and timespamming.

Definitely agree.

I hope Square considers something like "Performing the (New) Battle Regimen / Skillchain System", or "Effectively performing your role in the new Combat System (Debuffing, Enhancing the Party, using different Weaponskills or Actions, Staying at Ideal Distances to Attack, etc.)" or other diversity as you speak of, as the main factor for gaining Attachment Points.

NOT menial grinding of just "kill 1000 Enemies" to get your Materia created.

Problem:
The system feels like an archaic MMO farm or grind activity, which this game must avoid if it is to rise above.
Solution
-Diverse actions found in different playstyles cause attachment.

Agreed. I hope there are things like Multi-Step Challenges, Quests and Trials to overcome to gain Materia, and not just menial grinding.

This would prevent RMT / Bots from just grinding out Materia by equipping random Item and botting for X# of Hours to get Materia to flood the market.

Make it about SKILL. I'd rather spend ~3 months doing all sorts of various Quests and Challenges to gain my Ultimate Materia, vs. 3 months of Grinding over and over to get the same thing.

Lastly, if Square really is thinking about something like "You just have to have TWO of the same +3 Item (one for Materia generation, the other to attach it to)," THAT would actually cause MORE flooding of NQ and +1, +2 items onto the market, as the hardcore would go bonkers trying to get TWO +3 Items of the same type, and in the process, dump twice as many leftovers (NQ, +1, +2) onto the market.

But overall, don't get me wrong, I think this could be really exciting. (^_^)

[Peregrine]

Problem:
Crafters may be able to double dip profits from this system, enjoying steady sales of their over-produced crap and charging ridiculous prices for materia inlaying and HQ inlaying.
Solution
Emphasize crafters' primary economic benefit to be to increase demand for their undesired final product production, not primarily from profit from materia activity.

[Elexia]

Problem:
Crafters may be able to double dip profits from this system, enjoying steady sales of their over-produced crap and charging ridiculous prices for materia inlaying and HQ inlaying.
Solution
Emphasize crafters' primary economic benefit to be to increase demand for their undesired final product production, not primarily from profit from materia activity.

Real Solution: Make gil worth something.

[Rentahamster]

Real Solution: Make gil worth something.

Like this?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Curb-Inflation

Not a total solution, but it might help.