Materia System

[Peregrine]

I rather have the players play a role in the economy, but I go with whatever the majority thinks is better. I still don't think it's a big deal since DoW/DoM could sell their own materia gear to other DoW/DoMs.

Think about how you will go about doing this as a DoW and DoM.

You'll buy gear to turn into materia. You'll get the good materia, and inlay it into your current set of best gear. You won't initially sell your materia'd ger to anyone else. YOu'd remove the inferior materia, and replace it with better materia until you were done with a set.

Then what do you do? Well to get better you have to start trying double inlays. You again buy a bunch of gear to turn to materia. Once you have enough materia, you start trying double inlays. But on what gear do you try these high-fails on? Best in class NQ gear? Are you willing to burn +1 Jade crooks? +2? +3?

At what point do you become done, selling your materia'd gear to other people? You don't ever, until you have a double-materia'd Jade Crook+3 in every slot.

And by that point you'll either bee piss poor or sick of it.

Once a materia'd gear goes onto a DoW or DoM, that's where it dies. It would never get resold. You would resell all of three gears. The NQ double inlay once you made a +1 double inlay, the +1 double inlay once you made a +2 double inlay, and +2 double inlay once you made the +3.

Everything else will be garbage.

[OMEGA_HACK]

I rather have the players play a role in the economy, but I go with whatever the majority thinks is better. I still don't think it's a big deal since DoW/DoM could see their own materia gear to other DoW/DoMs.

The biggest problem with all this is the inflation levels, like mentioned a second ago there are no gilsinks in this game (there are no Chocobos to rent, or airships to ride and quite frankly will probably not be used too often due to being able to teleport to and fro)

Also the problem with the quoted text is that combat classes are still at the very bottom of the rungs its like a peasant screwing over another peasant to reach the upper-lower-class, its not a balanced economy. Something you should strive to achieve in a MMO (and personally in the real world as well, but; /le_sigh that is another off topic thread in its own)

[Feldt]

Just wanted to add my few cent's, tbh i like the name "Materia" "Materia System" would be glad if this would retain it name ^^

[Peregrine]

I am every discipline, and I can tell you for a fact that gatherers and crafters don't give a quarter **** about stats compared to what battlecrafts will pay.

You'd better come at me with more than freaking control+2 for me to pay you ANYTHING for that garbage as a crafter. Same goes for gathering. 10 craftsmanship, magic craftsmanship, and control mean NOTHING. 10 gathering output and control means NOTHING.

The impotent battle system that matsui is redesigning...it actually is the system for EVERYTHING in the game. Every system is that impotent.

Wake me up when the gathering materia has Node hit+1. Enhances rare item presense. Enhances quality of materials gathered. Until then, I'm not paying anything for that materia.

Similarly for crafting. I'm not paying anything for lame INT MND PIE DEX STR VIT materia, or even control, craft, or mcraft materia. I would only be interested in enhances chance of HQ (not enhances quality gain, I don't give a **** about 15 quality points), durability loss -10%, or doubles quality gains, doubles durability loss.

Otherwise I'm going to offer you a whole lot of meh as a crafter and gatherer for your orb.

If you try to sell me your craftsmanship+6 materia for 8 million gil because it's the HQ of a craftsmanship+4 materia, I'm just gonna laugh. That may matter for attack in the new Matsui battle arena, but that's not even a bean i the crafting world, let alone a hill of ones.

[LateReg]

I am every discipline, and I can tell you for a fact that gatherers and crafters don't give a quarter **** about stats compared to what battlecrafts will pay.

You'd better come at me with more than freaking control+2 for me to pay you ANYTHING for that garbage as a crafter. Same goes for gathering. 10 craftsmanship, magic craftsmanship, and control mean NOTHING. 10 gathering output and control means NOTHING.

The impotent battle system that matsui is redesigning...it actually is the system for EVERYTHING in the game. Every system is that impotent.

Wake me up when the gathering materia has Node hit+1. Enhances rare item presense. Enhances quality of materials gathered. Until then, I'm not paying anything for that materia.

Similarly for crafting. I'm not paying anything for lame INT MND PIE DEX STR VIT materia, or even control, craft, or mcraft materia. I would only be interested in enhances chance of HQ (not enhances quality gain, I don't give a **** about 15 quality points), durability loss -10%, or doubles quality gains, doubles durability loss.

Otherwise I'm going to offer you a whole lot of meh as a crafter and gatherer for your orb.

If you try to sell me your craftsmanship+6 materia for 8 million gil because it's the HQ of a craftsmanship+4 materia, I'm just gonna laugh. That may matter for attack in the new Matsui battle arena, but that's not even a bean i the crafting world, let alone a hill of ones.

It'd help to prove your points a lot better if you weren't wrong so often.

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...entry?e=183492

Also, I remember not too long ago you posted in a thread about lolmarauder, and when you were trying to prove your point that marauder is awful (which I do agree with, it is a terrible class right now in comparison to literally every other) you said a few things that were just completely inaccurate. The main one being that MRD, PUG, and LNC "parse within 3% of each other" which is so insanely wrong. Yes, MRD is below the other 2 (and wayyy below ARC), but saying that they're all pretty much as bad as one another.

The pecking order goes like this: ARC, LNC: these two are actually pretty close when you factor in party-wide Surge drain damage, which obviously procs even when everyone is at 100% HP, and if we're talking Comrade in Arms II TP boosts, the damage would be pretty hard to parse for LNC, which is why I think it's a heavily underrated class.

Let's say, on raptors (no point in even discussing NMs since literally ever NM in the game is solable - yes, even Buffalo and Uraeus) Speed Surge II drains for about 30~45 a hit on normal attacks, and significantly more on BR'd WS's. So, let's say about 10 normal hits occur between everyone in the PT. That's 300 damage at minimum being caused by Surge. Then, you have the WS's where it can drain for 90~200 ⅹ 5 DDs we're up to 1,300 damage just from Surge. That's more than a buffed multishot by a bit. Then factor in Comrade II, where people go to 1,000~2,000 TP in a matter of 2 attacks (crazy right?) and the damage really can't even be calculated since it's as if you're super-hasting the whole PT into insane TP figures.

I've done so many different raptor setups now that I've run into times where we've had 5 LNC, 1 healer, and also 5 ARC, 1 Healer and the speed was exactly the same, with crazy figures on both sides.

I know this was a bit off topic, but if you're going to post so aggressively, you would do well to get your facts completely right so as not to embarrass yourself in the least.

[Peregrine]

It'd help to prove your points a lot better if you weren't wrong so often.

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...entry?e=183492

Also, I remember not too long ago you posted in a thread about lolmarauder, and when you were trying to prove your point that marauder is awful (which I do agree with, it is a terrible class right now in comparison to literally every other) you said a few things that were just completely inaccurate. The main one being that MRD, PUG, and LNC "parse within 3% of each other" which is so insanely wrong. Yes, MRD is below the other 2 (and wayyy below ARC), but saying that they're all pretty much as bad as one another.

The pecking order goes like this: ARC, LNC: these two are actually pretty close when you factor in party-wide Surge drain damage, which obviously procs even when everyone is at 100% HP, and if we're talking Comrade in Arms II TP boosts, the damage would be pretty hard to parse for LNC, which is why I think it's a heavily underrated class.

Let's say, on raptors (no point in even discussing NMs since literally ever NM in the game is solable - yes, even Buffalo and Uraeus) Speed Surge II drains for about 30~45 a hit on normal attacks, and significantly more on BR'd WS's. So, let's say about 10 normal hits occur between everyone in the PT. That's 300 damage at minimum being caused by Surge. Then, you have the WS's where it can drain for 90~200 ⅹ 5 DDs we're up to 1,300 damage just from Surge. That's more than a buffed multishot by a bit. Then factor in Comrade II, where people go to 1,000~2,000 TP in a matter of 2 attacks (crazy right?) and the damage really can't even be calculated since it's as if you're super-hasting the whole PT into insane TP figures.

I've done so many different raptor setups now that I've run into times where we've had 5 LNC, 1 healer, and also 5 ARC, 1 Healer and the speed was exactly the same, with crazy figures on both sides.

I know this was a bit off topic, but if you're going to post so aggressively, you would do well to get your facts completely right so as not to embarrass yourself in the least.

Uh no one cares you're butthurt about being given the 9th degree by me in another topic. if you want to whine some more about the meleeing pecking order, put an attention to me in a thread and maybe I'll come talk to you.

As for how "I'm wrong" that 10 gathering does nothing, come back and talk when that gatherer is rank 48. I'm not paying 10 million gil to hit 7 times instead of 6 times as a piddlyding grinding miner. Level up. There. Now you can hit 7 times, and that 10 million gil you just spent doensn't let you hit 8.

Sowwwwwy.

[LateReg]

Uh no one cares you're butthurt about being given the 9th degree by me in another topic. if you want to whine some more about the meleeing pecking order, put an attention to me in a thread and maybe I'll come talk to you.

As for how "I'm wrong" that 10 gathering does nothing, come back and talk when that gatherer is rank 48. I'm not paying 10 million gil to hit 7 times instead of 6 times as a piddlyding grinding miner. Level up. There. Now you can hit 7 times, and that 10 million gil you just spent doensn't let you hit 8.

Sowwwwwy.

What? 10 million gil? You mean Orobon Stew with some cheap NQ gathering gear, and wearing a Coatee instead of a Jerkin?

You don't know enough about the game to talk as much as you do.

[Lionix]

For the most part, this post goes to you Peregrine. Of course, it goes to anyone who applies anyhow.

OK OK, this is borderline insane. I had to freakin' jump a bunch of post because the monopoly paranoia is just... I may have to google a word for super-incredibly-crazy-ass-huge. Or make one. Hugegantic. Maybe Hugegantuous.

Remember, and by Christ, this is just an example because most will probably be familiar with it, FFXI? Where crafters had some serious power? End game event (up to a point in history) used to simply drop coveted rare materials that were then sold to crafters, who made the best gear there was, WHO YOU BOUGHT IT FROM. The game did not flop because of this, for Christ's sake.

We do not have ONE "company" called "The One Crafting Guy", and you are ENTIRELY disregarding supply and demand. Hell, and affordability. I sell the materials for MANY kinds of "materias", not the ONE I want to buy, to multiple crafters. I proceed to also sell a LOT of my unrelated spoils, hides, meats, etc. I sell a buttload of crystals and shards to crafters that are just burning through all of this stuff just to skillup (and break, hah!). THEN I return, and I buy that ONE "materia" I want from ONE crafter, who I will chose if the price is justifiable in my eyes. If it's "too high" because he apparently wears a monocle the way you depict them, I freakin' walk away and go the next crafter until I find a cheaper one, because sooner or later, expensive things have to be marked down due to either not being affordable or competition. Too expensive still? Keep on creating materials out of your endless supply (materials from farming, this is the magic part, supplies are infinite) and keep selling, until you just buy it. Like we have always done.

Man, do you know how many Behemoth were killed for hides? And how many of their beautiful products were bought? You can rest assured, crafters charged you for the materials' worth on the end products, and we payed them (I just did Alchemy there, so I had to), and the world didn't torn asunder due to some insane monopoly theory.

Your goal as a battler is not to have an equal part on the economy! It's to get to just afford (key word, afford, not make an insane equal profit, why would I craft then?) that new piece of gear that will have you kicking dragon buttchops with pride!

Also: Option B is getting the materials, all of them, and have a single guy do all the work for me, for a small fee rather than have him buy the materials entirely from me so I have to pay it back, plus interest (in the end it's pretty much equal, but people are generally gentler, even giving, with commissions). Why the hell are you selling the "materia" components for "materia" you want anyways? You sell what's pretty much of no concern for you, you are making a profit in that case.

I think the three points you need to reevaluate are:
-The economy is not a three-persons game, you do not make the sales to the same person you buy: This is important, it has ramifications.
-There is no reason in this planet why a person that's entirely a fighter should have an even close to equal monetary gain (not to mention you are disregarding how attaining the end product is ALSO a gain, and an important one! Gains and costs aren't all measured in money, even as a complete salesman/crafter, disregarding time, among other things,is a horrible mistake), when you are considering a single product: Fighters have many other areas from where to gain, to invest in one. And even if it were an economy based on a single product and three persons, you'd be selling the "same crafter" materials for 10 "materias", buying one. See how it rolls? Who's losing now, in my micro-scope (similar in scale to yours, honestly) economy?
-Entirely (big, big mistake here) disregarding supply and demand.



And after all is said and done, who gives a rat's ass about who makes money in a game where money is over-flowing out of everyone's pocket? They screwed the pooch real bad the moment they made money appear out of nowhere in copious amounts with just leves. Did they learn nothing out of the common MMO economy with "Trash Loot" compared to FFXI's "Everything is useful and money is not given for free everywhere"?

[Duelle]

And after all is said and done, who gives a rat's ass about who makes money in a game where money is over-flowing out of everyone's pocket? They screwed the pooch real bad the moment they made money appear out of nowhere in copious amounts with just leves. Did they learn nothing out of the common MMO economy with "Trash Loot" compared to FFXI's "Everything is useful and money is not given for free everywhere"?

They learned the fact that those who found farming boring and could not sit around for hours for NMs to pop were screwed out of a source of income in XI. I like the fact leves serve their purpose in giving me income (granted, every 24 hours would be better than every 36). And for the record, no I'm not swimming in gil.

[Lionix]

They learned the fact that those who found farming boring and could not sit around for hours for NMs to pop were screwed out of a source of income in XI. I like the fact leves serve their purpose in giving me income (granted, every 24 hours would be better than every 36). And for the record, no I'm not swimming in gil.

Well it would be illogical for me to try to argue with your personal experiences.

Though you have to admit that quite honestly yours seems a rather instanced case. (The money subject, I mean, not the "fun" subject. I wouldn't dare argue about such a relative thing, you have your right to that one.)